Oh OK....Thanks... So we are!

[Nick Adams]

30 minutes ago, Basfis said:

My kids did 2 days of virtual because policy wouldn’t allow teachers that felt fine to teach in person.

I don't know your district, but if a district can field enough "players", they can't open school. You can't have 3rd grade seated and 4th grade virtual.

I'm going back to watching my Rams choke again.

[gotmuddy]

15 hours ago, Nick Adams said:

Your quote is empty, so I'm not sure what I need to defend, but there are 10s of thousands of business effected. Just locally, Cox is having to cancel routine visits and schools are closing because they can't get enough subs. If more people were vaxed, it wouldn't spread as much because fewer people would have it. That's not to even note how many businesses in the service industry are short-staffed. Carhartt's CEO said it was a threat to their bottom line.

I'm much more interested in what people think of the flies I posted in the Foam thread though.

Unless what everything I am reading is wrong, the shot(its not a vaccine) does not stop you from either getting the virus or stop you from spreading it.  It has been shown to reduce symptoms.

17 hours ago, Nick Adams said:

I agree that releasing data now is appropriate, but the Ron Johnson's and Joe Rogan's of the world are spinning conspiracy theories that are literally killing people. We have a ton of available anecdotal data as well. Millions of people have taken it and now one is dropping dead. A very few people have did drop dead from blood clots in the Atsra Zeneca and I believe at the very least women of certain demographics were advised to not take it. I don't think it was ever available here. Please note: I'm pulling this from my own memory. I'm too busy watching football to google and verify it.

From my perspective, there are a lot of people making a lot of excuses to not get a shot based on faulty or non-existent science. Doing your "own research" when you don't know how to actually do research is a horrible idea. My primary care doctor, as well a most, say that they very vast majority of side effects appear within 6 weeks. Will time tell? Yes, but so far so good.

All of our kids get about 12 vaccinations k-12 that are mandated by the state of Mo. Flu shots for caregivers are mandated in all health systems in MO and have been fore more than 10 years. We've have mandated, government enforced vaccines and quarantines supported by Supreme Court decisions for more than a century for small pox, TB, and more. People and politicians need to stop pretending that our rights are being violated. People also need to find reliable sources to get medical advice. I asked my own doctors, not CNN, Fox, MSNBC or my favorite comedians/podcasters. 

Please explain?  I do not think I am following your line of thought there.

[Nick Adams]

My point is the vax has been proven safe without the data being released and the one the wasn't safe was given a giant asterix and not released in our country. So all the "idk if it's safe" conversation from Rogan and Aaron Rogers-types is moot. It's been proven safe. Are there a very outliers with bad reactions? Yes. And some people can't eat shellfish or peanuts. But for the very vast majority of us, it's fine.

Yes, you can still get it. But the rates in which the vaxed are getting it is significantly smaller number than the unvaxed. So the delta outbreak would have maybe been a 1/4 of the size. The omicron would have been significantly smaller too. 

Does that make sense? 

[gotmuddy]

3 minutes ago, Nick Adams said:

My point is the vax has been proven safe without the data being released and the one the wasn't safe was given a giant asterix and not released in our country. So all the "idk if it's safe" conversation from Rogan and Aaron Rogers-types is moot. It's been proven safe. Are there a very outliers with bad reactions? Yes. And some people can't eat shellfish or peanuts. But for the very vast majority of us, it's fine.

Yes, you can still get it. But the rates in which the vaxed are getting it is significantly smaller number than the unvaxed. So the delta outbreak would have maybe been a 1/4 of the size. The omicron would have been significantly smaller too. 

Does that make sense? 

I understand your position on this, however I counter with:  How do you know its safe if no information is released?  Surely it cannot be "proven" safe with no data released, then your no better than the people who say its unsafe.  Top that with the fact that this shot has only been available for a year and that there has been zero long term studies of effects and I would say there is absolutely no way someone should be confident in saying it is "proven"

Now onto your disdain for Rogan.  He says constantly that if your high risk to get the shot.  He only mentions that if your young that it may not be safe because there have been no studies done on youth.

The Aaron rogers mention is laughable because his doctor literally told him not to take the shot because he is allergic to an ingredient.

 

Does anyone remember the term "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"??  Did that go away due to low profits?

[tjm]

 

20 minutes ago, Nick Adams said:

My point is the vax has been proven safe without the data being released

Can't prove anything without data, you can only spread propaganda

 

21 minutes ago, Nick Adams said:

. Are there a very outliers with bad reactions? Yes. And some people can't eat shellfish or peanuts. But for the very vast majority of us, it's fine.

And your wife or child is the one with the bad reaction that results death after very expensive hospitalization would you still mandate that shot for others? No one is forced to eat peanuts or shellfish. Do you think we should mandate the eating of peanuts? 20 peanuts every day or no job? Must eat this cup of oysters before you can enter the store or go to school?

As an anecdotal aside, our niece in Pa. is suffering from some serious heart problems, and related stuff that I don't understand the details of except it's likely to kill  a young mother, or, at best require a few surgeries and long recovery. Her sister the RN has told us that her doctor believes it's related to or result of the Covid-19 vaccine she received, but, he is reluctant to say that except in confidence and refuses to put his opinion in writing. So, if this is true, and it is hearsay, but if it's true that this Dr. is fearful of his job or reputation for expressing his diagnosis, don't we wonder if thousands of other Drs. also are? and how many thousands of affected people have gone unreported because policies that endanger the reporting Dr. ?

  

16 hours ago, Nick Adams said:

If more people were vaxed, it wouldn't spread as much because fewer people would have it.

This is at best speculation, we know that the the shot does not prevent people from having the virus and spreading it. It is said that the shot reduces the severity of the infection, with many people being asymptomatic, and those "no symptoms, not sick" people have the potential to spread the disease many times farther and to untold numbers more people than someone exhibiting symptoms and isolating or someone ill enough to be hospitalized. Unknown fully VAXED carriers is probably why the virus is still spreading. Or it could be why,  certainly it happens.

We could just as es easily and just as accurately say " If more people were vaxed, it could  spread much faster  because fewer people would know they  have it."  or "If more people were vaxed, it would spread faster because fewer people would have it and isolate."

The point being that past vaccines that were mandated like smallpox and polio were effective in prevention and these shots are not. I have no objection to the shots on a voluntary basis, but to mandate possibly lethal shots that are not proven to do anything, is awful. Even coercion by employers is awful.

 

[tjm]

1 hour ago, Nick Adams said:

But the rates in which the vaxed are getting it is significantly smaller number than the unvaxed

We don't know that, because the percentage of asymptomatic unreported infections could be very high. We don't know and the government doesn't know if that % is 2 or 50. The only way to establish a guess at  that would be to continually test and monitor a very large sample of both vaxed and unvaxed over  a long period of time, say 1500 of each, biweekly testing for 18 months.

 

[snagged in outlet 3]

1 hour ago, Nick Adams said:

But the rates in which the vaxed are getting it is significantly smaller number than the unvaxed.

The REAL data from Israel (the most vaxed country in the world) says the exact opposite.  

[MOPanfisher]

The problem with "data" at this point is that there is so much of it.  And I out "data" in quotes because sometimes it takes a lot of research to figure out if the "data" is scientifically supported, if it is something repeated by a hundred people but not supported.  I am quite happy to follow my doctors advice, so when he advised to get the vaccine (he had gotten it too) I did, when he says to wait 90 days after having had covid to get the booster I will.  Get the shot or don't get the shots, up to everyone to make their choice.  However I am completely against mandatory vaccinations, but that is me.  I hope we are all still around in a few years to argue about it still.  Good willing and the creeks don't rise as they say.

[Devan S.]

1 hour ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

The REAL data from Israel (the most vaxed country in the world) says the exact opposite.  

Does the same dataset show China having like zero cases in the last 2 months and North Korea never having a case?

[Smalliebigs]

3 hours ago, Nick Adams said:

My point is the vax has been proven safe without the data being released and the one the wasn't safe was given a giant asterix and not released in our country. So all the "idk if it's safe" conversation from Rogan and Aaron Rogers-types is moot. It's been proven safe. Are there a very outliers with bad reactions? Yes. And some people can't eat shellfish or peanuts. But for the very vast majority of us, it's fine.

Yes, you can still get it. But the rates in which the vaxed are getting it is significantly smaller number than the unvaxed. So the delta outbreak would have maybe been a 1/4 of the size. The omicron would have been significantly smaller too. 

Does that make sense? 

Once I received the shot exactly 45 days later I got Covid. The rate of infections really are not going down if you have the shot.