Is This The New Normal

[Terrierman]

3 hours ago, Quillback said:

Talked to one of my old friends a couple of days ago, he has 2 daughters, one in Med school and the other in Vet school.  Both of them were taking college courses while in high school, they have gotten scholarships, work as interns during the summer, and study all the time.  

The vet in training is probably going to specialize in horses, she lives in FL and there are a lot of horse owners in that state with deep pockets that keep vets busy.

Medical field is wide open, lots of schooling needed to get in, but the opportunities are there for sure.

It's easy to focus on problems but I still think most of our young people are better than what they are credited for.  

[basska]

6 minutes ago, Terrierman said:

It's easy to focus on problems but I still think most of our young people are better than what they are credited for.  

I honestly believe most people I talk to my age are set with a solid mindset, and one I'd might take over a lot of the millennials born in the 80s, but I won't get into that...

I notice a mild, general sense of pessimism with a lot of other men my age. I don't think it is necessarily an awful thing. In our short lives, we have seen many aspects of culture and society change, and I think this has led to this polarization of a lot of young people. I think there are some Gen Z people who really want to preserve a more "old-school" way of life; however they might interpret that to look. This is probably a reaction to social media, political radicalization and Covid. 

One reference to this thought is a simple fact that I have noticed, in which I usually find it easier to make friends with people 30 - 40 years older than me than those 10-20. 

One thing is for certain though - there are a lot of people my age who don't think these ways, and if they can't adjust to living a life with work, I will take advantage of it. I tell people looking for sales jobs that now is the perfect time to get in, a time where you can capitalize on others incompetence. 

[Lancer09]

Just read through this whole thing. From a perspective that is probably a little different than most here, no one posting in this is really wrong. As someone in their mid thirties now that found this board when I was in my low 20's my life is quite a bit different.
I graduated college, graduated grad school, worked a career for 6 years with no real perspective to move up within my city or anything near without having 10 more years of experience. Did a total 180 and moved to a sales role at the start of 2020, not a great year for that. I was very good at it though and was number 24 in the country at my role with a nationwide life insurance agency. I barely cleared 36k that year. 

That's when the wife and I decided it was time to do something different. We traveled, worked odds and ends, paid our bills while working a hell of a lot less and still making the same money. Surprise kid comes, settle down in careers but of course can't find child care. Have to move back to MO. I worked in a restaurant for 16 months before taking a job with the city of Springfield again. I was 250+ applications in and had one interview. This was even for low paying jobs that just weren't necessarily in my field but were responsibility adjacent. I now make 3.00 more an hour than I did 5 years ago when I left the city of Pleasant Hill to try and make more money. The professional work life has not kept up with cost of living (we know this), and minimum wage will always continue to increase. What's the point of working harder and being more stressed to not make much more if you don't need to. 

Young staff are the same now as they were 10 years ago when I was working with a different city. Low paying jobs get low work employees. How we as managers and supervisors adjust to that is up to us. Especially as we see how the job market has changed. I known what I value and much of that is time home with my son and wife, or outdoors which is why people relished the work from home... Which is what BOTH my Father in Law and step dad have done for over the last 10 and 30 years respectively. Yet they will both question why our house isn't as clean as theirs, or why we grab lunch out more often than they do, or why there is always laundry to be done. These are ALL  questions they have asked us when visiting our house. Yet I'm here working two jobs and about to pick up a third. 

 

Coming out of high school now, I would absolutely not go to college, but that was the only thing that we were taught to do. Go to college, get a job, pay your bills, take a vacation or two a year and have a hobby or two, except the money for those jobs is NOT there, and the positions to move up are still not available. As life has become more expensive individuals aren't retiring as early, and career tracks are not what they were. Managers complain about job hoppers to go find more money? Pay more. Period. I know that the money has to come from somewhere but it's hard for a business to complain about lack of qualified employees if they won't pay for them. 

 

[Quillback]

Interesting to hear the perspective of the younger folks.  

[Terrierman]

I've posted about having regular meals with a bunch of college boys that are friends of our grandson and now friends of ours too.  I don't worry about a single one of them.  College may not be for everyone - and it isn't.  But the people that are ready for college and work it are statistically favored to do well in their work lives.  

It is definitely fun and eye opening to talk with them.

[basska]

1 hour ago, Lancer09 said:

Just read through this whole thing. From a perspective that is probably a little different than most here, no one posting in this is really wrong. As someone in their mid thirties now that found this board when I was in my low 20's my life is quite a bit different.
I graduated college, graduated grad school, worked a career for 6 years with no real perspective to move up within my city or anything near without having 10 more years of experience. Did a total 180 and moved to a sales role at the start of 2020, not a great year for that. I was very good at it though and was number 24 in the country at my role with a nationwide life insurance agency. I barely cleared 36k that year. 

That's when the wife and I decided it was time to do something different. We traveled, worked odds and ends, paid our bills while working a hell of a lot less and still making the same money. Surprise kid comes, settle down in careers but of course can't find child care. Have to move back to MO. I worked in a restaurant for 16 months before taking a job with the city of Springfield again. I was 250+ applications in and had one interview. This was even for low paying jobs that just weren't necessarily in my field but were responsibility adjacent. I now make 3.00 more an hour than I did 5 years ago when I left the city of Pleasant Hill to try and make more money. The professional work life has not kept up with cost of living (we know this), and minimum wage will always continue to increase. What's the point of working harder and being more stressed to not make much more if you don't need to. 

Young staff are the same now as they were 10 years ago when I was working with a different city. Low paying jobs get low work employees. How we as managers and supervisors adjust to that is up to us. Especially as we see how the job market has changed. I known what I value and much of that is time home with my son and wife, or outdoors which is why people relished the work from home... Which is what BOTH my Father in Law and step dad have done for over the last 10 and 30 years respectively. Yet they will both question why our house isn't as clean as theirs, or why we grab lunch out more often than they do, or why there is always laundry to be done. These are ALL  questions they have asked us when visiting our house. Yet I'm here working two jobs and about to pick up a third. 

 

Coming out of high school now, I would absolutely not go to college, but that was the only thing that we were taught to do. Go to college, get a job, pay your bills, take a vacation or two a year and have a hobby or two, except the money for those jobs is NOT there, and the positions to move up are still not available. As life has become more expensive individuals aren't retiring as early, and career tracks are not what they were. Managers complain about job hoppers to go find more money? Pay more. Period. I know that the money has to come from somewhere but it's hard for a business to complain about lack of qualified employees if they won't pay for them. 

 

Are you an SME grad? Just curious. 

I agree with all this. I could not justify myself going to a big university. For what they want in money, I have neither the vision is academic prowess to make that deal. Currently, I am also a licensed insurance agent taking 2 CC classes for 700 bucks. 

The goal? Get a degree as cheap as possible, with no big rush... Get into financial advising, more life insurance and retirement planning. Work remotely. Leave city, buy land.

Fun plan, sure, but like you said, these things are all easier said than done. My biggest vice is pleasure spending on the next beer (shh) or lure, and compounding that with routine costs that I already get assistance with, it's pretty ridiculous how money just seems to fly out the bank. 

Things are just not cheap. at all. A similar sentiment to what you said, I don't know if people are not just becoming flat out discouraged. Follow the cash.

[fishinwrench]

57 minutes ago, Quillback said:

Interesting to hear the perspective of the younger folks.  

My daughters, and all of their friends, are WAY MORE responsible and forward seeking than I or any of my aquaintances were when we were their age.   

No denying that !   👍

[Lancer09]

2 hours ago, basska said:

Are you an SME grad? Just curious. 

I agree with all this. I could not justify myself going to a big university. For what they want in money, I have neither the vision is academic prowess to make that deal. Currently, I am also a licensed insurance agent taking 2 CC classes for 700 bucks. 

The goal? Get a degree as cheap as possible, with no big rush... Get into financial advising, more life insurance and retirement planning. Work remotely. Leave city, buy land.

Fun plan, sure, but like you said, these things are all easier said than done. My biggest vice is pleasure spending on the next beer (shh) or lure, and compounding that with routine costs that I already get assistance with, it's pretty ridiculous how money just seems to fly out the bank. 

Things are just not cheap. at all. A similar sentiment to what you said, I don't know if people are not just becoming flat out discouraged. Follow the cash.

I was MSU. I was able to escape with $0 in student debt between working my way through, having my graduate degree paid for with a GA position and a few other things. 

Work Remotely, yes it sounds nice. Truly, good luck. 
My Father in Law recently had a friend who owns a large construction company in town who wanted to talk about coming on to their team. When I actually spoke to him he essentially said "go to insurance estimating school, work for state farm for a couple years and then we can talk about  bringing you on low level"
Not the same thing, and at this point I don't need a 3 year commitment to hopefully get into your business. and start back lower again than where I am now working for the city, with no guarantee that would anything could or would work out. 

Really it comes down to you can have 0 skills and get a job/career that pays X, got get "the degree" work the entry level, and then try to move to something that pays 1.25X, and no real avenue to continue advancing in sight. For most people the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and I can't blame them.

Twice in my life I have been overlooked for a promotion because "You would have been our top choice but this new person who applied is great, and we think that a new perspective would be beneficial to the company" I then train that person on the job as I'd been doing it in the absence of their predecessor only to see them leave within a year, and the organization chooses to move forward without filling that position again.

It comes down to this. If professional companies want to keep skilled individuals around they need to create really training programs that teach the job, and teach it well how they want it to be done. Not all the corporate mumbo jumbo that everyone does. And then give time for the person to learn. They need to pay enough that when someone is learning a new job or career they aren't putting so much pressure on themselves that they crumble and have no other option that they end up not doing well and wash out therefore validating all of the poor training and pressure that was being put on them from above. Value your employees and they will value you as the employer. 

 

 

[Lancer09]

3 hours ago, Terrierman said:

I've posted about having regular meals with a bunch of college boys that are friends of our grandson and now friends of ours too.  I don't worry about a single one of them.  College may not be for everyone - and it isn't.  But the people that are ready for college and work it are statistically favored to do well in their work lives.  

It is definitely fun and eye opening to talk with them.

Having a college degree has definitely allowed me to obtain positions that I would not have been able to without it, though it doesn't always matter. I've never been paid more for additional education experience, and have been declined interviews for better paying jobs than I have now because it "over qualifies me" 

3 years into employment with a small town outside of KC we hired a new maintenance supervisor with an associates degree as that was the required education level for the position. As the recreation supervisor I was required to have a bachelors. He was hired in at over 3.50 more an hour than I made because that's the "going rate for a supervisor in the metro." Each year that we got our 2% cost of living raise that number grew larger. They were unable to ever "get me to at least the same level" since we were  the same level within the parks department and that's why I left. I was a 0 sum position meaning that I needed to bring in a profit that 100% off set the cost of my position and did so. 
His position provided no revenue for the city and was further supplemented by mine. 

Yes I have a "stable" job. I've been with the city of Springfield for 6 months now. The two supervisors that would be the next step up have been here for 10+ years with no plans to move up or on... And at the year mark, sorry but the 1.09 raise does not make it worth not continuing to keep options open. 

[oneshot 1]

I have a Son that has 2 Ball Fields and a Restaurant couple Bars. He lost his Liqueur License over a stupid shooting but he is going to have my Grandson get them. 

He was wanting to Retire at 38 but real life showed up and it didn't happen.

He went to SMS but he could have done what he has without it.

Only have one out of 6 look out for the old man. But I think he is getting tiered of it because I'm living too long. 

oneshot