Landowner run in on a stream near Pineville

[snagged in outlet 3]

13 hours ago, jdmidwest said:

But my local County Highway Department has been permitted to mine gravel out of my creek at several locations.  They have applied for the Corps permits and met the requirements of the Dept of Nat. Resources. We have never received monetary benefits from it.  It just pools up where the current slows down.

Gravel mining in some locations is not bad, it offsets the poor land management from others upstream that allow the runoff to come down stream and settle.

A nice buffer zone from fields and pastures to the creek with trees and other land holding structures are needed in all waterways.  Clear cuts on hillsides seem to cause the most issues with gravel in streams, disturbing the delicate cover of the thin soils in the Ozarks..

You should see the clear cutting on the upper Meramec.   Whole hillsides bull dozed for a better “view”.   Giant mud plumes downstream after a rain.  

[jdmidwest]

They clear cut a section of the Little Frederick off the 11pt many years ago.  The creek ran dry in the area that we used to catch nice fish.  Losing streams get clogged in the outlet or the inlet and parts run dry for years.  There is some flow again there now.

[dan hufferd]

On 3/8/2025 at 9:30 PM, Al Agnew said:

Pretty sure you are completely correct.  There are a lot of things that county officials are letting landowners get away with when it comes to fencing.  The infamous 47 Highway bridge on the Mineral Fork was fenced off by the huge landowner that owned everything for a mile or two in every direction.  To their credit, they put up a sign that read that you had to have a valid fishing license to cross the fence and get to the water...they were trying to stop the constant partying, littering, drunkenness, and drug use at that spot, which had great road shoulder parking and nice clear water for swimming, while still allowing some fishing access.  None of it was legal, but county officials let it slide.  Unfortunately, it did nothing to stop the partying, so I don't know for sure but I suspect that the landowner had enough pull in county politics that they got the county to post no parking signs all over place and put a stop to all access.

I cannot blame them.

[Al Agnew]

11 hours ago, dan hufferd said:

I cannot blame them.

No, I can't blame the landowners that much, either.  But at the same time, as a river landowner myself, I bought my land with my eyes wide open, knowing the public had a right to be on my gravel bars, and knowing that there are some obnoxious people that are included in the public. 

Who I DO blame is the county law enforcement.  All it would take to put a stop to a lot of this behavior is spending a bit of time on regular patrols of these party spots for a few weekends.  Word would get out, and the bad behavior would decrease dramatically.

I can't rag too much on law enforcement in the county where I live in a house with Meramec River frontage.  We've had to call the sheriff's department a couple times when our alarm system was set off while we were out of town.  Our camera system showed us deputies showing up within a very short time and being thorough in making sure everything was okay...they even drove up our old logging road leading off the driveway to make sure nobody was hiding their vehicle up it out of sight.  But if they are that conscientious, surely a call from a landowner at the bridge reporting a crazy party under the bridge should get the same treatment.  Probably wouldn't even have to arrest anybody for anything, just show that these spots aren't immune from patrols. 

[tjm]

You think the party people are not part of the public that has access to the gravel for recreation? A party is recreation, isn't it?

[fishinwrench]

Whoever decided that Rivers were a good place to party needs their butt kicked up between their shoulder blades.   😠 And outfitters that allow it should have their business license revoked.

It is inevitable that at least a couple in every group are gonna get totally wasted.....and then it's somebody else's job to babysit them and keep them from drowning.   

When my kids & their friends started partying and planning float trips I gathered them up and we had a long talk.   There are places to party......and there are places NOT to party !     The river (any river) rates right up there at #1 of the absolute stupidest places to get drunk/high.    Especially for youngsters who truly have little experience maintaining their senses.  

[tjm]

Better on the river perhaps than on the highway? The argument could made that no place is a good place to be blotto? Such people always need a babysitter no matter where they are?

[fishinwrench]

16 minutes ago, tjm said:

Better on the river perhaps than on the highway? The argument could made that no place is a good place to be blotto? Such people always need a babysitter no matter where they are?

There is that. 

Tonight all the lake area bars are celebrating the annual St.Pattys Day Lake Area Pub Crawl 🙄  Heavily supported by our Lake Area Chamber of Commerce.

By all means participate by driving from bar-to bar-to bar-to bar,  and have a drink or two at each one. 🤙 

What a grand idea !    There must be too much room in the courtrooms and hospitals.  

[tjm]

Potato Planting Day! It's always a marvel to me how many people become both Irish and Catholic that one day each year.  I have thought that bars/pubs should not not have parking lots. Only loading zones, make it part of the building code or licensing requirements.  Area Pub Crawls should sponsor a trolley bus  transport for the revelers, with constant bus circulation the party could make the rounds two or three times to all the participating  pubs. 

[snagged in outlet 3]

8 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

There is that. 

Tonight all the lake area bars are celebrating the annual St.Pattys Day Lake Area Pub Crawl 🙄  Heavily supported by our Lake Area Chamber of Commerce.

By all means participate by driving from bar-to bar-to bar-to bar,  and have a drink or two at each one. 🤙 

What a grand idea !    There must be too much room in the courtrooms and hospitals.  

Actually I think people these days are more careful than previously.   Everyone I know, including my adult children either Uber or hire out a company to haul them around.  My buddies at the lake hire "captains" to pilot their boats so they can party.  Not saying everyone does it but the smart ones do.