Bug, and larvae questions.

[Daryk Campbell Sr]

Guys, so far, this discussion has given me a much clearer direction and understanding than the vast searches that I've done over the last 5 or 8 years.   @dpitt, you apologize for being simple, but thats exactly what I need.   

As far as catching fish, I am satisfied with my results.   I'm generally not skunked on a regular basis.    I just always have enjoyed being beside or in the water.  Catching fish is just a bonus.    I want to know what "makes up" the stream I'm on.    I'm not just eying trout,  I'm interested in all of the fish.  I have a dough bait that I'm actually over confident in.   Almost as good as a seine net.   It's not about catching or attracting the fish.  Just genuinely interested in a basic level of the stream life.  

@tjm, that brief description has really made more sense as what I'm asking for.   There is alot of information,  if you know what things are.  But if someone really doesn't know the basics, it just isn't easy to translate.   Thank you.  

Guys,  thank you all.   Seriously,  this thread has been more help than you can understand.    It seems like most of the info out there starts on chapter 3, but I can't find the first 2 chapters to make sense of it.  

I really hope this info helps others who are as lost as me.   

[jdmidwest]

https://www.fieldandstream.com/stories/fishing/fly-fishing/aquatic-insect-guide

Certain flies are designed to mimic the nymph and adult stages of insects.  If you have time on a nice quiet stream to watch fish feeding naturally, it can make more sense.  Insects rising or settling on water to lay eggs are dry fly imitations.  Nymphs floated below the surface or on the surface as emerges.

[Foghorn]

A good friend gave my youngest daughter art lessons for a year or so in 2000. He was a very good artist but did more work making custom knives. On one of my visits to pick up my daughter, he asked about fly fishing. The discussion advanced until we met up at Bennett Springs. He caught on quick enough to start going with another friend and was pretty much self sufficient. We were talking fly tying one day and he said he was tying some dragonfly nymph imitations. I told him I wasn't sure what they nymph stage looked like and he probably could catch as many fish on something easier to tie. He called a week or two later and I asked him how his new fly worked. He said" I'm tying some "furry foam" flies as they're a lot easier to tie and my dragonfly nymphs didn't catch much!" 

[tjm]

Dragonfly nymphs aren't as  hard to tie as stoneflies. The bulging eyes are the most distinguishing part to me, otherwise just a #8-#12 generic grub. Bead chain or melt mono for the eyes. They do need to be fished right on the bottom in pools rather than fast water and moved in short jerks, 3"-6"  like the bug moves.  

There are many patterns out there but Barr’s Dragonfly Nymph is a good example.

 

MDC Gallery

[tjm]

Mayfly - https://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/mayfly-larvae   Most of the nymphs we fish are larvae stage mayflies.

Stonefly- https://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/stonefly-larvae  Larvae stage stonfly patterns almost always have the word 'ston' or 'stonefly' in the name to distingush them from the mayfly nymphs. 

Caddisfly -https://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/caddisflies  The larvae stage of cadis isn't usually fished that I'm aware of,  too tiny I think, we have many caddis pupa iitations and a few adult imitations.  Many soft hackle flies are considered cadiis pupa. 

[snagged in outlet 3]

13 hours ago, dpitt said:

Yes, he became an Entomologist because of fly fishing, we'd go fishing I would look up and he became more interested in turning rocks over and beating the trees for bugs. 

Where does an entomologist work?   And what do they do?  

[dpitt]

1 hour ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

Where does an entomologist work?   And what do they do?  

He has an interesting job,  he is on a research Postdoc fellowship with Washington State university lab in Wenatchee WA, they work closely with the USDA, but he is on a Grant from the State of Washington researching how Leaf Hoppers are vectoring a nasty ,  virus (x-disease) to Cherry Trees. 

   Here's an article about his research work from a fruit growers trade magazine.   

https://goodfruit.com/solving-for-x-disease/

 

 

[FishnDave]

Here's a hatch chart for Missouri you may find useful:

https://flyfishersatthecrossing.org/education/bug-info/missouri-hatch-chart/

I've copied the contents of that line below.  You'd still have to look up what the bugs actually look like.

Missouri Hatch Chart

Here is the Missouri hatch chart for our State.  Many of these hatches are happening at the same time in other states as well.  The imitations suggested are just that – suggestions. Flies that you have that may be similar would work also. Remember when the specific aquatic insect (caddis, mayfly, or stonefly) is hatching their nymphal and larva stage are present as well.  Midges are year round so don’t forget to fish with them.

March Thru May

Early Season Mayfly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitation’s
Mid Mar to Mid April	Little Blue Winged Olive		Early Afternoon	16-20	Blue Winged Olive Emerger and Dry
Mid April to Early May	Blue Quill		Early Afternoon	16-18	Blue Quill Dry Paraleptophlebia Nymph
Mid April to Mid May	Quill Gordon		Early Afternoon	12-14	Hare’s Ear Wet Fly, G.R. Hare’s Ear Nymph, Quill Gordon Dry
Mid April to Mid May	Hendrickson (Red Quill)		Mid Afternoon	12-14	Hendrickson Nymph, Light Hendrickson Dry, Red Quill Dry

Early Season Caddis Fly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitation’s
Mid April to Mid May	Little Black Caddis		Early Afternoon	18	Dark Brown/Black Elk hair Caddis
Mid April	Grannom Caddis		Late Morning – Early Afternoon	14-16	Leadwing Coachman Wet, dark Brown Elk Hair Caddis
Late April to Early May	Cream Caddis		Late Morning – Afternoon	14	Cream Elk Hair Caddis, Cream Emergent Pupa
Early May	Green Caddis		Late Morning – Afternoon	14	Green Caddis Larva and Pupa, Henryville Special Dry

Early Season Stonefly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitation’s
Early March	Little Black Stonefly		Mid-day	16	Black body-dun hackle and down wings dry. Early Black Stonefly Nymph
April	Early Brown Stonefly		Afternoon	10-14	Early Brown Stone Wet, Early Brown Stone Nymph

 May Thru June

Mid Season Mayfly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitations
Mid May to Early June	March Brown		Sporadic Throughout the day	10-12	March Brown Dry, Stenonema Nymph, Spinner
Mid May to Early June	Gray Fox		Sporadic Throughout the day	12-14	Gray Fox Dry, Stenonema Nymph, Spinner
Late May to Early June	Green Drake Coffin Fly(Spinner)		Throughout Afternoon and Evening	8-10	Green Drake Dun, Green Drake Nymph, Coffin Fly, White Wulff
Late May to Mid June	Little Maryatt		Evening	14-16	EphemerellaNymph
Late May to Mid June	Pale Sulfur Dun		Evening	14-16	Sulfur Dun & Spinner
Late May to Mid June	Pale Evening Dun		Evening	14-16	Pale Evening Dun & Spinner
Late May to Late June	Light Cahill		Evening	12-16	Light Cahill Nymph, Emerger, Dun & Spinner
Early June to Late June	Blue Winged Olive		Late Morning to Mid-day	12-16	Blue Winged Olive Nymph, Wet, & Dun

 Mid Season Caddis Fly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitations
Late May, June	Tan Caddis		Afternoon Evening	14-18	March Brown Spider, Tan Elk Hair Caddis
Late May, June	Dun Caddis		Midday	14	Elk Hair Caddis, Tent Wing Caddis

Mid Season Stonefly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitations
June	Little Yellow Sally		Afternoon	10-14	Michigan Stone Dry
June	Golden Stone		Afternoon Evening	10	Stonefly Creeper
May, June	Giant Black Stonefly		Morning, Afternoon	4-8	Kauffman’s Nymph, B!tch Creek Nymph, Montana Nymph
May, June	Giant Spined Stonefly		Evening	4-8	Kauffman’s Nymph, B!tch Creek Nymph, Montana Nymph

June Thru October

Late Season Mayfly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitations
Mid June through Mid October	Slate Winged Mahogany		Sporadic Throughout the Day	10-12	Leadwing Coachman, Isonychia Nymph, Dun Variant, Rusty Spinner
Mid June, Mid July	Blue Winged Olive		Morning, Midday	14-16	Ephemerella Nymph, Emerger & Dun
Late June and July	Golden Drake		Evening	12	Cream Variant
July thru September	Trico		Morning	22-24	Trico Dun & Spinner
July thru October	Tiny Blue Winged Olive		Sporadic Afternoon	18-24	Blue Winged Olive Nymph, Emerger & Dun

Late Season Caddis Fly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitations
June thru Sept	Tan Caddis		Sporadic All Day	14-20	Tan Elk Hair Caddis
August thru Oct	Summer Sedge (Autumn Sedge)		Late Day, Evening	12-18	Woodchuck Caddis, Cased Caddis

Late Season Stonefly Hatch Chart

Approximate Hatch Dates	Common Name		Time of Day	Hook Size	Imitations
Mid June, July	Lime Sally		Afternoon, Evening	16-18	Michigan Stone, little Green Hairwing
Mid June, July	Yellow Sally		Afternoon, Evening	14	Little Yellow Hairwing
Mid June, July	Great Brown Stonefly		Evening	8-12	Stimulator, Ted’s Stonefly
June thru August	Big Golden Stonefly		Evening	8	Golden Stone Nymph, Stimulator

[Al Agnew]

7 hours ago, tjm said:

Mayfly - https://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/mayfly-larvae   Most of the nymphs we fish are larvae stage mayflies.

Stonefly- https://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/stonefly-larvae  Larvae stage stonfly patterns almost always have the word 'ston' or 'stonefly' in the name to distingush them from the mayfly nymphs. 

Caddisfly -https://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/field-guide/caddisflies  The larvae stage of cadis isn't usually fished that I'm aware of,  too tiny I think, we have many caddis pupa iitations and a few adult imitations.  Many soft hackle flies are considered cadiis pupa. 

As far as caddis pupae, you're right, soft hackles do well as caddis pupae imitations.  Here on the Yellowstone, we have a bunch of species of caddis that emerge anytime from late April through September.  You'll see some flying around most days within that time period.  So there are plenty of the pupae in the water and some beginning to emerge and metamorphose about any time.  The most famous "hatch" of caddis on the Yellowstone is the "Mother's Day caddis hatch", which happens within a week or so of the first of May, and it can be absolutely spectacular.  But the eggs these caddis deposit are in sacs that are a bright lime green when first deposited, and gradually dull.  And the larvae and pupae tend to have hints of that lime green.  So in soft hackles, I'm always fishing one with lime green on its thorax, with grizzly soft hackles.  That color pattern works better than any other on the Yellowstone, and I fish soft hackles a LOT, because they are great flies for both drifting and swinging.  The fish really eat them as they first begin to rise from the bottom and start to swing at the end of a dead drift.

[Al Agnew]

21 hours ago, tjm said:

I spent a lot of hours in the City Library back in the '70s and memorized a lot bug names and then some grad student did a research paper and changed all the names and even changed the families the bugs belonged to, and I'm pretty sure that's happened again since then, point being that entomology as such isn't going to be constant. Every crop of grad students can and will rewrite it all. I believe that I've finely managed to forget most of those bug names. One book that was small enough to carry on the water and covered most of the mayflies was Art Flick's "Streamside Guide to Naturals and Their Imitations" which has since been revised as "new"  and may be available from your local library.   

For simple insect study that may interest you try Troutnut https://www.troutnut.com/hatches he has about the best website as far as trout related bugs go. You can learn about mayflies, caddis, and stoneflies with good images of most. 

the terms like 'sulfur '  "March Brown" "Blue wing Olive" are kinda vague terms for the patterns we use to imitate some types of insects and are also used to roughly designate the insects being imitated. I say vague because the terms often apply to more than one species of insect or more than one type of imitation. Sulfur generally means "yellow colored"  and Blue Wing Olives/BWO  can have  gray wings and gray bodies to my eye although the name suggests pale blue wings and olive body. "Crackleback" is the name of a St. Louis  fly pattern that is based the old Palmer style flies sometimes called "woolly worms".  It is confused on whether it wants to be a dry fly that is fished underwater or a wet fly that is fished as a dry. A web search of each term with 'fly fishing' included in the search bar should find lots of explanations. 

You can take a handful of rather generic Catskill or parachute dry flies, to represent the adult mayflies or "Duns" and something like an Elk Hair Caddis/EHC to represent all the "sedges" or caddis flies and basic nymphs like the Pheasant Tail, sparse woolly bugger and the Hare's Ear/GRHE  to represent most larvae, along with a marabou leech or two and catch fish just about anywhere and even if the imitation isn't a hatch match, if it is the right size and delivered to the right spot it will often catch a "selective" trout.  So intimate knowledge of the insects isn't necessary for  fly fishing. 

As  to hatches, they are a lot more important in places that I have never fished than they are in places that I have fished. I've read many a tale about needing perfect matches,  of millions of insects and hatches that lasted hours, but my experience runs more like a couple hundred insects sporadically hatching over a hour and the fish paying only mild attention to them. I guess that in my ~50 years of fly rod fishing I've just been very lucky to never have encountered a single large hatch, although I've seen hundreds of smallish hatches. I don't recall a time when my fly actually matched the hatch either but I always managed to find a stupid fish or two. 

I've been in some spectacular hatches, the most spectacular being the Mother's Day caddis hatch on the Yellowstone.  The bugs are in the billions, and when they come off the river seems to just erupt with millions at once.  The surface gets to where it's covered in caddis, with mats of them.  They are easy to imitate with several different flies.  But the real trick to getting fish to take your imitation out of the thousands of bugs surrounding it is to use an imitation caddis that is about two sizes larger than the actual bugs.  Sometimes you don't WANT to match the bugs perfectly!