Uncertainty at Ranger boats

[dtrs5kprs]

43 minutes ago, Ham said:

Everybody hates the wealthy man, but how many jobs are created by a poor man? I never begrudge someone the wealth they have earned. I might not understand why a billionaire is still working 70 plus hours a week, but I don't hate him for it. There is not one single economic pie that has to be sliced up for everyone. Just because one guy is making a ton of money that doesn't mean he is preventing other people from getting their's.

And more often than not, he is making it possible for the rest of us to be employed, sell our product/service, etc. 

[vernon]

All that being said, (and I don't really disagree with any of it) I still can't help but wax nostalgic at times and naively "wish" that things could be more the way they at least seemed to be.  For those of us that are products of the 50's and 60's or I would bet even more so the 40's, today's way of life, business and morality can seem confusing and quite contradictory.  Most of us were taught to be honest and trustworthy and we expected it of others as well (although we all pretty much learned along the way that that concept was full of holes.)

I realize that to an extent things really were pretty much the same then as they are today.  Money, technology and media have dramatically altered the playing field and probably more importantly our perception of reality.  Corporate takeovers, greed, piracy and lack of respect for ones fellow man and the law didn't just get started in 2010 or whenever.  But I do think that for some of us at least the constant awareness and daily reminders of societies lack of respect for truth and honesty is disconcerting.  It also seems to have fostered a considerable amount of bitterness and a "what about me" attitude that has become most divisive throughout our culture.

You don't have to be all that smart to know when someone in a position of considerable power and influence is flat out lying to you these days.  Just watch TV and they'll show you volumes of video evidence of them doing just that.  Most importantly to some of us though is the fact that they know that we know they're lying but just don't care.  And they suffer no consequences for their dishonesty and arrogance. I guess I'd ask that they at least show me the courtesy of making the effort to be discreet while screwing me over.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not so stupid as to think that Johnny Morris or anyone else in the world cares what I think.  It's beyond evident that they don't.  But a part of me is stupid enough to wish that more of those fortunate enough to wield the power of finance and politics were more like Forrest Wood.  Bass boats be danged, I don't think too many could argue that the world would be a better place.

[Mitch f]

The rise and fall of empires always seem to take the same path. The flesh is weak!

[Old plug]

You said a mouthful that time Mitch. iT is coming and like a rock rolling down a hill it is gaining momentum. 

2 hours ago, Mitch f said:

The rise and fall of empires always seem to take the same path. The flesh is weak!

 

[Old plug]

i have nothing against wealthy people. I do have a lot against greed. If I owned a company I would set up profit sharing part of what the employ get on his paycheck would be directly connected to the companies profitability. And we would ALL rise and fall with that. You would be surprised how much that would change the outlook. i also would put in place a group health plan. 

2 hours ago, dtrs5kprs said:

And more often than not, he is making it possible for the rest of us to be employed, sell our product/service, etc. 

Yeah they did that alright. Let's see Coal operators, Steel mills and Dress factories. Three good examples of the fair handed big bussinesses running over people. In the case of coal operators and steel mills they went one step further they murdered them. There used to be a song called 16 tons ,nice tune , but It was a very sad true story. Had they tried to take care of thier employees better I really do not think we would have had  the rise of all powerful unionism. Do not worry the greed has already gone to far. We got a country full of unhappy poor and lower class people. We also have guns all over the place. Enjoy yourself while you can because they are going to rise up with a great determination ( that the soft upper crust does not possess) just like they have throughout history and destroy everything including a lot of the upper class. 

It amazes me everything goes to China for profit. What great business move. People need to pay attention to something beside their greedy profits. China is killing you financially without firing a bullet. But that wil come also. She is prepairing to kick your greedy butts all the way across the Pacific. 

[abkeenan]

Where will one be able to get a 2017 Hopper 520C Comanche?

[Bill Babler]

Today, I was invited to a pretty good sized meeting featuring some of the top distributor representatives in the boating, motor, electronics and general boat product industry.  All of these vendors sell to both BP, Ranger and all the bass boat as well as the pleasure boat manufactures.  By being the little mouse in the corner and keeping quiet while I munched on my piece of cheese I learned a WHOLE bunch.

As everyone that reads me knows, I am not nor have I ever been the biggest fan of BP.  Nothing at all against JM, I have meet him a couple of times and have no problem with the gentleman.  I just do not agree with their marketing  I'm kind of one of those guys that will pay a bit more for something that is top quality and will last a lifetime instead of something that cost less and will come apart, usually at the worst possible moment.  Have nothing against folks that buy like this, I just don't. 

First I learned that folks in the industry are really not to sad to see this dynasty come to an end.  Lots of behind  the scene and late night deals and deals from 40 yrs. ago on a handshake are coming to an end.  Lots of huge salaries, bonuses and commissions are coming to an end.  Lots of under the table money is not going to be put under the table any further.

Bass Pro may have gotten this one right.  Some of the top Ranger Pro's that have been with the company since near or at the beginning will not be getting that cash in their Christmas stocking this year.  Lots of changes and we may actually see a better boat company for it.

It is my understanding that everyone of the top management people at Ranger could have retained a position.  This includes the sales staff and all of the line managers.  However the days of the 7 plus figure salary and bonuses were gone.  Commission sales and high 6 to low 7 figure salaries were and are going to be turned into extremely high paying salary jobs, just not that high.

When Brunswick purchased Mercury they did the same thing.  Some of the Mercury sales people were making middle 7 figures selling motors.  A 1 million a year commission  sales job was turned into a quarter a million salary.  Same thing is going to happen at Ranger. 

Ranger has always operated at a higher profit margin per unit than any other company.  These guys were saying today most boat companies operate on a 2X margin to even at sales time a 1.5X.   Ranger has been rigid on a 3X ie Material+Labor+Facilities+Manufacturing  X3.  For most of us this means on the X2 Total cost of production and marketing and then double it.  This formula takes into account material quality in the  price of production.  If your materials are more then that reflects into the cost before the X factor rolls in.

Say for argument that BP and Ranger are buying and using identical materials in their boats from carpet fiber to box latches, from wiring from the same companies to resign and composite materials from the same company and their manufacturing cost are the same, total cost of production the same.  A boat that  cost BP to build is $15,000  They double this production cost and sell it for $30,000.  They add the motor and all the goodies that we want that they do not manufacturer, but purchase and they come up with a $65,000 price tag.

Ranger would have a base price on that boat of $45,000 prior to adding the accoutrements to finish the package with the parts  that they do not manufacture.$75,000 same boat, due to 3X  They however do not use the same materials or the same productions methods or have the same initial cost on production.  Ranger is higher.  When you add this to the 3X profit theory it makes the boats quite abit more expensive than according to these distributors they should be.  Bass Pro is going to bring that in line by better and more ergonomic production methods, sharing cost for materials thru all their boat companies and reducing industry leading commissions and salaries to a level that is inline with the industry, at 2X.

They maintain that the quality of the materials used in the Ranger will not change nor will the quality of construction.  In fact the distributors think it will improve with better management and leadership.  I also heard word on this and tend to agree on the leadership as if what they are saying is true you will all know the name of the new leader of the company and it  is by far one of the biggest names in the bass boat industry.

Another quick point and I'll get off this mammoth thread.  I believe one of you had spoken to Forrest and he had said one of his biggest sorrows was when Ray Scott went to Triton for BASS.  Long story short.  When Ray approached Forrest about perhaps a greater advertisement budget from Ranger for BASS, Forrest ask him how much money he wanted to make.  In turn Ray asked Forrest the same question. Forrest did not reply.  Forrest Wood was a very astute businessman, make no mistake about it.  Good down home folks, but business has always been about business and both Ray and Forrest can agree on that.

Now you know what I know or maybe think we know.

[vernon]

Wow Bill.  As always, very insightful and a pretty unique perspective.  Personally, and as a longtime Ranger guy, I hope everything regarding the future of Ranger that you gleaned from this event is true.  Like most long time Ranger owners, I've been on the receiving end of considerable criticism for "running one of those overpriced, high dollar Rangers."  I've also been told over and over that I'm paying extra for the Ranger name and that my boat(s) is no better than any of the others out there that can be had for considerably less.  Obviously much of what you've said would support that notion.

Be that as it may, I've never regretted buying any of my nine new Rangers over the years and have always believed that I got what I paid for.  Still do today.  Nonetheless, if what you heard means that I can continue to purchase what I believe to be a superior product at a lesser price I'm obviously all in.  As much as I like Randy Hopper and many of the other fine folks at Ranger, I am selfish enough to admit that I care more about the financial impact on me than I do them as I'm pretty sure they'll be just fine.

While I also have great admiration and respect for Forrest Wood, I do in fact realize that he didn't build Ranger into the company that it became by being just another nice guy.  While I personally believe him to be one of the finest people I've had the privilege to know, I'm sure he placed the bottom line above other considerations on numerous occasions.  I suppose pretty much all successful business men do.  While I have no idea how the rewards of that success were shared or distributed among the employees at Ranger it sounds as if he might have been generous to a fault.  Or, if not him, someone somewhere along the line established a business model of grossly overpaying at least certain members of the Ranger "family".

If by eliminating certain areas of less than judicious spending Ranger can offer the same quality product at a more competitive price then everybody wins.  However, if a more prudent business model only results in the extra dollars being funneled into the coffers of Johnny Morris then who really cares?  

Again, I'm fully aware that Johnny Morris and the rest of the world doesn't much care what I think.  I guess that's why I sometimes prefer my own concept that Forrest Wood, Randy Hopper, et al. were the "good guys" that really did care.  At least that's how they always came across to me whenever I had dealings with them.  Perception being 90% of reality and all.

As for the Ray Scott reference, I've always thought of him as a snake oil salesman of sorts so the story about the BASS - Ranger spilt fed into how I preferred to look upon that situation as well.  Naive as it may be I guess I'm more comfortable siding with the guy who treated me like someone special even if the facts might be somewhat contrary to that perception.  When pertinent, I guess most of us end up judging others primarily on how they've treated us.

Thanks as always for your comments and for sharing what you learned at the meeting.  Sometimes the truth hurts but it does in fact almost always seem to lie somewhere in the middle.

[Champ188]

11 minutes ago, vernon said:

Wow Bill.  As always, very insightful and a pretty unique perspective.  Personally, and as a longtime Ranger guy, I hope everything regarding the future of Ranger that you gleaned from this event is true.  Like most long time Ranger owners, I've been on the receiving end of considerable criticism for "running one of those overpriced, high dollar Rangers."  I've also been told over and over that I'm paying extra for the Ranger name and that my boat(s) is no better than any of the others out there that can be had for considerably less.  Obviously much of what you've said would support that notion.

Be that as it may, I've never regretted buying any of my nine new Rangers over the years and have always believed that I got what I paid for.  Still do today.  Nonetheless, if what you heard means that I can continue to purchase what I believe to be a superior product at a lesser price I'm obviously all in.  As much as I like Randy Hopper and many of the other fine folks at Ranger, I am selfish enough to admit that I care more about the financial impact on me than I do them as I'm pretty sure they'll be just fine.

While I also have great admiration and respect for Forrest Wood, I do in fact realize that he didn't build Ranger into the company that it became by being just another nice guy.  While I personally believe him to be one of the finest people I've had the privilege to know, I'm sure he placed the bottom line above other considerations on numerous occasions.  I suppose pretty much all successful business men do.  While I have no idea how the rewards of that success were shared or distributed among the employees at Ranger it sounds as if he might have been generous to a fault.  Or, if not him, someone somewhere along the line established a business model of grossly overpaying at least certain members of the Ranger "family".

If by eliminating certain areas of less than judicious spending Ranger can offer the same quality product at a more competitive price then everybody wins.  However, if a more prudent business model only results in the extra dollars being funneled into the coffers of Johnny Morris then who really cares?  

Again, I'm fully aware that Johnny Morris and the rest of the world doesn't much care what I think.  I guess that's why I sometimes prefer my own concept that Forrest Wood, Randy Hopper, et al. were the "good guys" that really did care.  At least that's how they always came across to me whenever I had dealings with them.  Perception being 90% of reality and all.

As for the Ray Scott reference, I've always thought of him as a snake oil salesman of sorts so the story about the BASS - Ranger spilt fed into how I preferred to look upon that situation as well.  Naive as it may be I guess I'm more comfortable siding with the guy who treated me like someone special even if the facts might be somewhat contrary to that perception.  When pertinent, I guess most of us end up judging others primarily on how they've treated us.

Thanks as always for your comments and for sharing what you learned at the meeting.  Sometimes the truth hurts but it does in fact almost always seem to lie somewhere in the middle.

Vernon, you saved me from making a lengthy post. With your permission, I'd like to "borrow" every word you just said. Couldn't agree more on every point.

[vernon]

5 minutes ago, Champ188 said:

Vernon, you saved me from making a lengthy post. With your permission, I'd like to "borrow" every word you just said. Couldn't agree more on every point.

Champ, you bet and thanks for the kind words.  I honestly feel like I have some sort of personal stake in this deal although I realize that's pretty far fetched and probably pretty self serving.  However, I don't attach myself emotionally to very many (read none) companies, businesses, manufacturers, etc. but over the past 40 years I have done just that with Ranger.  

As crazy and downright frightening as so much of life in today's world can sometimes be, I have always found considerable solace in my fantasy world in little ol' Flippin, Arkansas.  I love that place and all of the people that I've met there.  As such, I'm most reluctant to surrender any parts of that comfort zone - regardless.

Even grownups need a place to hide every now and then I guess.

Thanks.