Crappie, 10-7

[Johnsfolly]

1 hour ago, MoCarp said:

 

My buddy knew this man and his family. I enjoyed going over to the Columbia BPS to see Pat. It was a much bigger fish in person. Sadly both the angler and the fish have died.

I don't  foresee that a large reservoir would produce a fish like this one. Too many variables. One issue that isn't  discussed thus far is that crappie are extremely prolific spawners to the point that without sufficient control tend to overpopulate and become stunted. I would not advocate the release of additional predators like tiger musky to this lake. Toothy predators have a tendency to not prey upon the species that you may want to control. They may target walleye and bass over the crappie. You might be better off putting in a slot for crappie if you want bigger but albeit possibly fewer fish. But I am not a fisheries manager.

[MoCarp]

3 hours ago, Johnsfolly said:

My buddy knew this man and his family. I enjoyed going over to the Columbia BPS to see Pat. It was a much bigger fish in person. Sadly both the angler and the fish have died.

I don't  foresee that a large reservoir would produce a fish like this one. Too many variables. One issue that isn't  discussed thus far is that crappie are extremely prolific spawners to the point that without sufficient control tend to overpopulate and become stunted. I would not advocate the release of additional predators like tiger musky to this lake. Toothy predators have a tendency to not prey upon the species that you may want to control. They may target walleye and bass over the crappie. You might be better off putting in a slot for crappie if you want bigger but albeit possibly fewer fish. But I am not a fisheries manager.

This is a big issue up north recently but studies show, carp and suckers are the biggest prey items...some species we don’t have here like whitefish, Cisco and but here largest shad, suckers and carp...I’m sure that somewhere data has been gathered from pomme

 

[3DHUSKER]

23 hours ago, MoCarp said:

 Bass limits traditionally have been generous in the south, catfish are not as popular there as here ( lots of bullheads) bream or sun fish get pressure...it’s my understanding gizzard shad stay smaller longer in Stockton, enough food so a crappie hit 10” plus in 3 years...it’s logical to think they could hit 12 in another year...

 

Again muddy lake that is not even close to what Stockton is.  

[MoCarp]

19 minutes ago, 3DHUSKER said:

Again muddy lake that is not even close to what Stockton is.  

“Below: Growth rates for crappie, fall, 2019. Fish from 2018 and 2019 flood years were 75% of Black Crappie numbers. Not all fish were aged. Odd growth patterns were from low sample sizes of some year classes. Black Crappie grew slower than White Crappie, which is normal for the FCRs. It takes about a year longer for Black Crappie to grow over 12 inches. Few White Crappie older than Age 3+ were seen because of harvest. There were more Black Crappie older than Age 3+ because it takes them about a year longer to grow over 12 inches. Also, they tend to stay in cover while White Crappie suspend in open water where they are vulnerable to trolling.”

that plus the year growth rate cart...Stockton rates are not far off...you just need to scroll down on that post to see...harvest is the biggest limiting factor on crappie

[olfishead]

4 hours ago, MoCarp said:

This is a big issue up north recently but studies show, carp and suckers are the biggest prey items...some species we don’t have here like whitefish, Cisco and but here largest shad, suckers and carp...I’m sure that somewhere data has been gathered from pomme

 

Wow, I don't know where that video was taken but they might as well used a fillet knife to see what that muskie ingested. Rediculous method. We certainly never used that method at Pomme. When it comes down to it they feed on whatever swims by with lots of variables.

 

[MoCarp]

13 hours ago, olfishead said:

Wow, I don't know where that video was taken but they might as well used a fillet knife to see what that muskie ingested. Rediculous method. We certainly never used that method at Pomme. When it comes down to it they feed on whatever swims by with lots of variables.

 

Yeah thought that was a bit rough as well....

[Walcrabass]

MoCarp,

  I can see that intelligence runs through your veins. What you have presented in the Data shows exactly what you and I both know to be true. If you harvest a Crappie at 10" it is never going to make it to 12".

Harvest, Harvest, Harvest, the biggest controlling factor IF FOOD IS AVAILABLE.

Let's see...... Deer.............  remember applying for Doe tags because they did not want them killed. Reason? Harvest of them knocked down the number of deer................. I personally applied for one every year and them made sure I did not use it. Helped the population all I could......................

I see no argument for the 10" length limit at Stockton. 11" minimum and 12 would be better. Cut the daily bag? OK. Limit the number of fish over 17" to two or three per day? OK. 

We finally came to our senses on the Kentuckies at Stockton. Stopped another Table Rock part two. Let's wake up on the Crappie also......................

 

Walcrabass

[Lvn2Fish]

On 10/23/2020 at 8:43 PM, MoCarp said:

I posted the usda growing season maps Stockton is comparable, fertility is probably a bit higher yet Stockton has plenty of shad, also Grenada is a lot like Stockton with few coves compared to other waters, dropping the limit to a 10 per and a boat total should drop over harvest, bumping the limit to 12” is doable might not get 4 pounders but bet you get more 2s 

I‘m sure Stockton has plenty of shad . But how hard does a fish have to work to eat a Stockton shad . I’m betting that it’s harder for a fish in a deep clear lake with minimal cover to ambush prey . Compared to a muddy shallow lake with abundant cover options . 

[Lvn2Fish]

On 10/24/2020 at 3:05 PM, MoCarp said:

“Below: Growth rates for crappie, fall, 2019. Fish from 2018 and 2019 flood years were 75% of Black Crappie numbers. Not all fish were aged. Odd growth patterns were from low sample sizes of some year classes. Black Crappie grew slower than White Crappie, which is normal for the FCRs. It takes about a year longer for Black Crappie to grow over 12 inches. Few White Crappie older than Age 3+ were seen because of harvest. There were more Black Crappie older than Age 3+ because it takes them about a year longer to grow over 12 inches. Also, they tend to stay in cover while White Crappie suspend in open water where they are vulnerable to trolling.”

that plus the year growth rate cart...Stockton rates are not far off...you just need to scroll down on that post to see...harvest is the biggest limiting factor on crappie

These growth rates are they an average of the overall region ? The little map with the colors is complete bull . Every lake is different .According  to the map a crappie trapped in the spillway pool of springfield lake grows at the same rate  as a crappie in Stockton . 

[Devan S.]

20 minutes ago, Lvn2Fish said:

These growth rates are they an average of the overall region ? The little map with the colors is complete bull . Every lake is different .According  to the map a crappie trapped in the spillway pool of springfield lake grows at the same rate  as a crappie in Stockton . 

The growth rates from the Grenada study are measured directly from the fish from Grenada. The colored maps are USDA hardiness zone maps. They are really in effect just a comparison of the average minimum winter temperature which should at least in some sense corelate to minimum water temperature as an average across the area. 

 

I don't know of any study specifically related to the growth of crappie at Stockton lake. It probably doesn't exist. I do however think its a stretch to say growth rates are comparable between Stockton and Grenada. If the growth rate for a white crappie at Grenada is 3.7"/year and Stockton is 3.3"/year(a number I just pulled out of thin air to come up with a 10" LL in year 3) then sure they appear close as absolute numbers however the percent difference ends up being 10% difference in growth rates per year which is sizeable when you start talking about 3-4 years compounded.

 

Walcrabass's concept is that Crappie fisheries in themselves are generally catch and keep, not catch and release like bass. In effect his theory is that the biggest contributor to size structure is the LL. Which is probably correct and IF the growth rate is 3.3"/year then adding a year to go from 3 years age class to 4 year age class to harvest is likely not a big deal. However the danger in doing that is that you in effect add an age class of fish to the lake that has to have the food resource available to survive. 

If you do this with Crappie the effect may be minimal, add in changing bass, walleye, catfish, and the concern is a situation where your add a significant strain on the food resource in a lake that is designed and managed as a multispecies destination.  

In my opinion this is the biggest difference between Grenada and Stockton all other things considered. Grenada is managed as a trophy crappie lake to the detriment of all other species(as evidenced by their regulations). Their focus is 99% Crappie for that lake and it works and works well. It is a premier Crappie destination that people travel from all over to visit for one thing and one thing only. They aren't attempting to have significant amounts of "other" species" there in any quality or quantity.