Bed Fishing

[DADAKOTA]

1 hour ago, chi0082 said:

You're making a pretty large assumption that the average tournament angler takes great care of their catch. As if nobody lands their catch on the carpet of their boat, grabs the fish with dry bare hands, throws it in the livewell and then turns on the livewell. Not to mention stabbing a cull ring inside the fish's sensitive gills and yanking it out when you cull. Yea none of that will kill a fish. Everyone is just really careful because they're not pressed for time, and has top notch well maintained equipment in their $55,000 boats. 

The best fisherman in the best boats with the best equipment in the elite leagues (FLW, B.A.S.S., etc) is where my numbers come from. Even with all the precautions and things they do to take great care of the fish, the mortality rates are still higher than you think. Who knows how bad it is at the lower levels of the sport. I've been to lakes after a major tournament was held the day before and have seen dead bass all over the shore. It's a sad deal and needs to be better regulated or stopped all together. My opinion anyways. 

I don't believe I made any large assumption about the tourney anglers.  You obviously do not care for tournaments and possibly tournament anglers.  You provided unsupported opinion regarding tournament mortality and the effects of relocation.  I merely asked for recent studies so I could formulate my own opinion.  I'd love to see the data.  I never said no one boat flips a fish to the carpet (I do not like that method of landing fish and wish BASS and FLW would not allow it), and I can't say I have ever seen a fish thrown in a livewell.  I have seen numerous bank anglers drag their catch up onto the bank though.  I take great care when putting fish in a livewell that has water already in it and I take great care of them while they are in it.  I have never seen someone put a culling buoy through a fishes gills.  I have seen numerous recreational anglers run their rope or clip stringer through their catches gill opening and out through the mouth regardless of species.  It doesn't benefit a tourney angler to mistreat their fish as most derbies either have a penalty for dead fish or will not accept them for weigh in.  The more fish they keep alive the more fish they have an opportunity to catch at a later date.   It was the tourney anglers that promoted the concept of catch and release.  Is there tournament mortality?  Yes there is.  Is there mortality caused by recreational fishemen?  Absolutely.  It would be interesting to know the numbers for both.  The bottom line is we are all anglers and anything we can do to take care of and improve the resource we should do.  We should all make a concerted effort to handle the fish properly, and to take care of them the best we can for release or for harvest if that is your choice.

[fishinwrench]

With all that's been said I still think the best move is to weigh/score/release immediately.    

In all other fishing regs once a fish is added to your creel it is yours.  You either release unharmed immediately or keep it and add it to your daily limit.  You can't cull trout, can you?  Noooo, cuz they cost money to raise and stock.

The MDC set their culling laws to allow it in bass tournaments.   Why ?   Are they looking out for the ethical treatment of fish (which is what they get paid to do) or are they pandering to a group that spends some money elsewhere?   Pretty sure we know the answer to that, and the bottom line is that it's not cool.  

It's odd that none of their Biologists care to recognize that constantly relocating fish like LMB could disturb the population balance that they supposedly care so much about, with all their electroshocking, tag tracking, and other crap. 

[DADAKOTA]

3 hours ago, Mitch f said:

FWIW,

There is a big time LOZ tournament angler (aint gonna name names) who's full time job is an adjuster for an insurance company. He walks the lawns of his lake front clients so he can be "very thorough at his job", Oh, and while he's there, he spots the biggest females, from his optimum angle point of view, on the spawn beds and knows which beds to fish on tourney day.   

What do you call him? is he a genius, using all available information legally? or is he getting an unfair advantage and cheating? you make the call. 

That is quite the accusation.  Did he tell you this or is this gossip/hearsay?  Not sure how much this would actually be a factor in a tournament.  Female bass are only on the nest for a few hours up to 48 hours or so and she is probably most vulnerable to being caught just after dropping her eggs.  So a female spotted on the nest on Monday probably won't be there come Saturday.  If he spots her on Friday she more than likely will be around.  I'd think the male bass would be more vulnerable as they are on the nest far longer.  As an adjuster, not every appointment is going to involve property on the water.  Not sure how many appointments an adjuster would have on a typical LOZ day that are actually on the water.  More if there had been a big storm, but I doubt he typically looks at multiple waterfront properties each workday during the spawn.  He'd probably have more visits as an agent trying to sell insurance rather than as an adjuster.  If he is a serious stick at the Zarks then he has years of experience and knows the better spawning coves, pockets, and banks.  He probably knows the best nesting sites from years on the water and probably scouts these spots for activity during the spawn.  I could find a lot more fish on nests by spending time on the water than scoping out a single property at a time during an appointment.  If the tourney has no off limits rules or rules about where/how you get information, then legally he is fine.  Ethically on the other hand would be up to his morals, values, ethics, and conscience.  Most guys that are successful would not want to jeopardize their reputation or their sponsorship's by doing something that would put them in a bad light.   It amazes me how often rumors get started about guys who win tournaments, shoot a big buck or bull elk, etc.  This sounds like it could be a rumor as the facts don't appear to logically line up with the conclusion.  If he did in fact tell you this firsthand did you inquire as to the tourney rules, etc.?

[Mitch f]

Just now, DADAKOTA said:

That is quite the accusation.  Did he tell you this or is this gossip/hearsay?  Not sure how much this would actually be a factor in a tournament.  Female bass are only on the nest for a few hours up to 48 hours or so and she is probably most vulnerable to being caught just after dropping her eggs.  So a female spotted on the nest on Monday probably won't be there come Saturday.  If he spots her on Friday she more than likely will be around.  I'd think the male bass would be more vulnerable as they are on the nest far longer.  As an adjuster, not every appointment is going to involve property on the water.  Not sure how many appointments an adjuster would have on a typical LOZ day that are actually on the water.  More if there had been a big storm, but I doubt he typically looks at multiple waterfront properties each workday during the spawn.  He'd probably have more visits as an agent trying to sell insurance rather than as an adjuster.  If he is a serious stick at the Zarks then he has years of experience and knows the better spawning coves, pockets, and banks.  He probably knows the best nesting sites from years on the water and probably scouts these spots for activity during the spawn.  I could find a lot more fish on nests by spending time on the water than scoping out a single property at a time during an appointment.  If the tourney has no off limits rules or rules about where/how you get information, then legally he is fine.  Ethically on the other hand would be up to his morals, values, ethics, and conscience.  Most guys that are successful would not want to jeopardize their reputation or their sponsorship's by doing something that would put them in a bad light.   It amazes me how often rumors get started about guys who win tournaments, shoot a big buck or bull elk, etc.  This sounds like it could be a rumor as the facts don't appear to logically line up with the conclusion.  If he did in fact tell you this firsthand did you inquire as to the tourney rules, etc.?

Think what you want, I'm personal friends with the client

[fishinwrench]

I don't do "service calls" (dock calls) any more, but I did for quite a few years.  Many of my favorite fishing spots were found that way, and often enhanced by making a few rock piles and/or stake beds while I was there.  I don't consider that unfair in any sense but I do acknowledge that it was (and remains to be) an advantage.   

[DADAKOTA]

21 minutes ago, Mitch f said:

24 minutes ago, DADAKOTA said:

That is quite the accusation.  Did he tell you this or is this gossip/hearsay?  Not sure how much this would actually be a factor in a tournament.  Female bass are only on the nest for a few hours up to 48 hours or so and she is probably most vulnerable to being caught just after dropping her eggs.  So a female spotted on the nest on Monday probably won't be there come Saturday.  If he spots her on Friday she more than likely will be around.  I'd think the male bass would be more vulnerable as they are on the nest far longer.  As an adjuster, not every appointment is going to involve property on the water.  Not sure how many appointments an adjuster would have on a typical LOZ day that are actually on the water.  More if there had been a big storm, but I doubt he typically looks at multiple waterfront properties each workday during the spawn.  He'd probably have more visits as an agent trying to sell insurance rather than as an adjuster.  If he is a serious stick at the Zarks then he has years of experience and knows the better spawning coves, pockets, and banks.  He probably knows the best nesting sites from years on the water and probably scouts these spots for activity during the spawn.  I could find a lot more fish on nests by spending time on the water than scoping out a single property at a time during an appointment.  If the tourney has no off limits rules or rules about where/how you get information, then legally he is fine.  Ethically on the other hand would be up to his morals, values, ethics, and conscience.  Most guys that are successful would not want to jeopardize their reputation or their sponsorship's by doing something that would put them in a bad light.   It amazes me how often rumors get started about guys who win tournaments, shoot a big buck or bull elk, etc.  This sounds like it could be a rumor as the facts don't appear to logically line up with the conclusion.  If he did in fact tell you this firsthand did you inquire as to the tourney rules, etc.?

Think what you want, I'm personal friends with the client

Just offering my 2 cents based on the information provided.

[Mitch f]

16 minutes ago, DADAKOTA said:

Just offering my 2 cents based on the information provided.

It's all good!?

[chi0082]

43 minutes ago, DADAKOTA said:

I don't believe I made any large assumption about the tourney anglers.  You obviously do not care for tournaments and possibly tournament anglers.  You provided unsupported opinion regarding tournament mortality and the effects of relocation.  I merely asked for recent studies so I could formulate my own opinion.  I'd love to see the data.  I never said no one boat flips a fish to the carpet (I do not like that method of landing fish and wish BASS and FLW would not allow it), and I can't say I have ever seen a fish thrown in a livewell.  I have seen numerous bank anglers drag their catch up onto the bank though.  I take great care when putting fish in a livewell that has water already in it and I take great care of them while they are in it.  I have never seen someone put a culling buoy through a fishes gills.  I have seen numerous recreational anglers run their rope or clip stringer through their catches gill opening and out through the mouth regardless of species.  It doesn't benefit a tourney angler to mistreat their fish as most derbies either have a penalty for dead fish or will not accept them for weigh in.  The more fish they keep alive the more fish they have an opportunity to catch at a later date.   It was the tourney anglers that promoted the concept of catch and release.  Is there tournament mortality?  Yes there is.  Is there mortality caused by recreational fishemen?  Absolutely.  It would be interesting to know the numbers for both.  The bottom line is we are all anglers and anything we can do to take care of and improve the resource we should do.  We should all make a concerted effort to handle the fish properly, and to take care of them the best we can for release or for harvest if that is your choice.

Unsupported opinions? HAHA. Try google buddy, you'll find plenty of studies done on fish mortality rates from bass tournaments. You'll come to realize my numbers were very conservative. Some studies show upwards of 70% mortality rates. But bass fishing is a very big money making industry so everyone has been "hush, hush" about the facts so that people like you don't hear about it. Surprising how well that works.

[bfishn]

Exploring Population-Level Effects of Fishery Closure during Spawning: An Example Using Largemouth Bass http://sfrc.ufl.edu/allenlab/publications/Gwinn%20and%20Allen%20spawning%20closures.pdf

[MOPanfisher]

Google is awesome.  I can find studies that say tournament fishing in ruining the fisheries, and studies that say it has no effect on the overall population.