Fly Fishing Bass from the Bank and Wet Wading.

[Flysmallie]

3 hours ago, Foghorn said:

I look from time to time at Yellowstone Anglers "shootout" just to get a different perspective. They test a bunch of rods and you get 4-5 of their staff evaluating rods, reels, etc. Often a mid to lower price range will test out in their criteria better than some high end rods. I was looking for a lighter 8 wt. rod several years ago and they recommended a TFO "BVK" that was in the $250 range back then ahead of quite a few of the $700 plus rods.  Took the rod to Michigan and handled king salmon well enough on the PM. 

I also went searching for an 8wt years ago and the BVK made the short list. It was actually a toss up on it and another but a smoking deal on the other sealed the deal. 
 

However, I still want a BVK. This conversation is going to cause a dip in the bank account. 

[Foghorn]

I didn't weigh the rod but it was a 4 piece and was advertised at 3.2 ounces which is as light as a lot of 4-6 weight rods. 

[rps]

Ready to pull trigger on this. Yea or Nay?

https://www.reelflyrod.com/redington-crosswater-690-4-fly-rod-outfit-6wt-90.html

[tjm]

Taper has a couple of purposes, first is dissipation of energy so that leader and fly don't crash into the  feeding area of the fish and scare it dead. The other is "delicacy of presentation" which to me is the result of the first. The heavier line always transferring it's energy to lighter line ensures smooth turnover too. And leaders are tapered for the same reason. These considerations are especially important in presenting dry flies to spooky trout, less important when serving up bulky streamers to aggressive bass or in the salt. I can't imagine they have any importance when the delicate taper ends in a dobber, but what do I know.

If the WF Weight Forward and the DT Double Taper are made by the same company and are in the same series of lines the first 30' should be identical, taper the same throughout a series, the weight/mass the same because they meet an AFTMA  (American Fly Fishing Trade Association) Standard that was set back about 1960.  https://affta.org/page/IndustryStandards

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/readerscast/rc150.php

WF typically has 30-50' of "head" or "body" that is exactly the same as that much of the same series of DT, then is reduced to very small "shooting" or "running" line.  Think cut a DT in half and slice one half to monofilament, which how shooting heads began. While the DT is essentially two WF lines with the running line cut out and the bodies spliced, so one taper is toward the reel and the other is toward the leader.  In the silk line days, after a few hours of fishing the silk would become soggy and sink, if you had a DT you could reverse the line on the reel and have a fresh dry line, in plastic lines this is no longer needed but if I have a DT and I step on the using end and cut it I can turn the line and have a new line without leaving the stream and driving who knows where to buy another. Since they cost the same I'll always pick a DT. I'll also go to a DT for longer roll casts because the running line simply can't cast. WF has a big advantage if you are a good enough caster to shoot lots of line on every  cast, I'm not so WF has nothing but disadvantage to me.

Other opinions- https://midcurrent.com/experts/why-fish-double-taper-fly-lines/

444 Peach

from http://www.carlinbamboo.com/essays/wfdt.htm

Quote

The above illustration shows the basic taper anatomy of a 4wt Cortland 444 WF and DT fly line (detailed specs can be seen in a popup located below the next graphic). The important details to note are: The front tapers are identical. The front tapers begin and end at the same position on each fly line. The body on the DT line is the same diameter as the body on the WF line. In other words, the first 30' of both fly lines are absolutely identical in every way. Of course there are now many different tapers in fly lines.  You can have long front tapers, slow front tapers, half line weights, etc.  But, within the same fly line model and line weight, if you have a WF line and a DT line there is no difference at all when casting until you get more than 30' of fly line in the air.  And this does not include the level tip, leader or tippet. So for a typical ~40' cast there is effectively no difference between casting a WF or DT line (of equivalent weight and model).

 

some non standard lines are called WF because there no separate categories for them, many are described as "aggressive" in that the mass distribution is heavy at or near  the tip, like adding a shot near the hook. A non standard "WF" SA Mastery Trout WF5 fly line taper profile

Another nonstandard "WF" the Wulff Triangle Taper

"Tippet"  is the section of a leader that attaches to the fly, typically the smallest diameter section of the leader. Tippet Material is usually a monofilament that differs from 'fishing line in that it has a higher break strength for the same diameter and often a harder finish. Every fly leader has a tippet if it has fly on it. The tippet is often sized to fit whatever size hook the fly is tied on. 

Tippet discussion

Printable chart

Two "rules" for sizing tippet to  hook size. Rule of 4 and Rule of 3. Hook size divided by 4  gives a useful  "X" size of tippet, or hook size divided by 3 will give a finer tippet "X" size for more delicate presentation. So for a size 16 hook 16/4=4X  for beginners, rough water, discolored water etc. and 16/3=5X for experts, super-clear water, still water etc.

I've never been happy with store bought extruded leaders, so tie my own tapers that can be streamside modified as conditions change, the butt needs to be thick enough and stiff enough to match the fly line in flex and energy transfer, the tippet needs  to match the fly, the taper just steps the diameter down to get from butt to tippet. Famous hotelier, fly fisher, and fly rod designer Charles Ritz said a leader should be "60% of strength, 20% of decrease and 20% of point" his example for trout 60" of 0.018", 6'' each of 0.016", 0.014", 0.012", 0.010, and 22" of 0.008" for a total of 9'  (which shows that he wasn't great at math and he used a larger tippet than most of us) Most extruded leaders claim to follow the "Ritz formula" yet they start out quite a bit larger and taper the entire leader. I prefer an adaptation of Ritz's leader in that my reduction takes bigger jumps and thereby has fewer knots.  Gary Borger determined that smooth  energy transfer would allow up  35% reduction in diameter rather than the traditional 0.002" reduction regardless of size. So the trout leader can be 5-6' of 0.017,  18-20" of 0.011", and a tippet of ~24' of 4X- for my bass fishing the leader is shorter ~4-5' of 0.918" and ~2' of 0.011 tippet. (Trilene 20# =4' + 8# =2')

another opinion on leaders- http://www.rackelhanen.se/eng/10058.htm

[FishnDave]

Redington has some species specific combos that include everything you need, besides maybe tippet and flies.  Supposedly come with a good quality line.  Got pretty good ratings.  I haven't tried them.

When I lived in Iowa, I flyfished for Largemouth Bass in public ponds, and Smallmouth Bass in a small river.  Caught quite a few 18"-21.75" Largemouth, and Smallies up to @ 18".  Those smallies were freaky strong!  

I like fast action 6wts for bass, and even ultra fast rods, if you can find them.  And you can always upline with a 7wt WF line to help with casting heavier flies.  12 lb Fluoro tippet is about right for all bass.

I have the TFO BVK rods in 5wt, 6wt, and 7wt.  I have some other rods I like even better, but they are really really good rods, especially for the price.  And the customer service/warranty on repairs has been good, too.  My only complaint on the BVK's is, in every wt I have tried, the rod sections work loose when casting/fishing.  Check and reseat them periodically while fishing, and its all good.  I've cast rod sections out into the water many times with that rod line.  Of course you just strip them back in, no worries...just a little embarrassing when it happens.

[Ham]

FWIW, I don't think BVK's are offered anymore.  I bought an TFO Axiom II which I think is the BVK replacement. 

I think the Reddington Crosswater will be fine. It is certainly a nice starter setup and you can decide how far into this hole you want to jump. 

[Nick Adams]

Buy buy buy

[fishinwrench]

The TF BVK is a fine feeling stick, but everyone I know that has owned one managed to break it before the cork even got dirty.

Thin walled/High modulus/ SNAP!  

[Foghorn]

Redington at one time had a really good warranty on their fly rods. Buddy broke 2 in Wisconsin and they had a lifetime no questions asked policy. That was years ago and it looks like the Crosswater has a one year warranty. Little brother has a Redington Behemoth that has a monster drag(more than he needs) but somehow broke the reel handle off. I'm thinking he or his wife stepped on it. He hasn't had much success getting the folks at Redington to see if it's repairable or not. Another buddy uses the Redington Crosswater in a 7'6" 4 wt. and loves it for fishing smaller trout park fish. Good buddy Laker 67 who recently passed would often use a $50 Dog wood Canyon in the park sight fishing! I'm like Ham, get it in your hands and give it a shot.

[Terrierman]

On 5/1/2022 at 12:56 AM, rps said:

When the movie, A River Runs Through It, came out, Larry and I were still regularly fishing the White River below Bull Shoals. We rented boats and guided ourselves and had been doing so since before Rim Shoals was declared catch and release. Suddenly the river was infested with what we dubbed as wading pukes. They all looked like models from LL Bean, right down to their vests, waders, and hanging thingamabobs from the vest. They stood in the middle of the channels and runs through the shoals where they should have fished and flailed at the shallow water. I am sure they all joined TU.

The fact I am considering becoming a wading puke amuses me.

Having said that, Wrench has posted the quintessential Wrench post. ^^^^^.  I love it.

However, I will share this. I have a daughter I dearly love, Emily. She has never encountered an issue or fact about which she did not have the correct opinion. She is quite willing to explain why you are mistaken. The fact she is highly intelligent and well educated makes her formidable. Scary and formidable.

My hope is to someday introduce her to the Wrench. I could sell tickets and become rich over night.

I'll buy a ticket for me, one for Marty, one for Les and one for Ham.  I'll bring sandwiches and cokes as this might take a while.