Thanks for nothing MDC

[ozark trout fisher]

Eh,  I would say criticizing their data quality based on interns/grad assistants doing the collection  (how do you think large-scale research gets done?) or worse, one misidentified fish, seems relatively flimsy. Yes, mistakes get made, but the vast majority out there (even "young folks", which for some unknown reason apparently matters) know danged well what  they are doing. I respect the opinions of experienced anglers, but I by nature trust scientifically collected data a decent amount more.  One mistake does not equate to a bad dataset. It means that human beings did the sampling.

To use your example, catching mostly smallouth from a stretch doesn't mean they predominate. Maybe you just target good smallmouth habitat, and skip slower water. Those are the kind of biases you create when you base too many conclusions off what you catch, that probaby would not be reflected in normal data collecting techniques (imperfect as they obviously are )

[Terrierman]

13 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Oh I don't judge them solely on that.  I'd be perfectly happy with what they did if they actually did anything.  Hell they don't even cut their own grass around here, they sub-contract it out to landscaping businesses from 60+ miles away (probably a son in law of one of the honchos). 

All I ever see them do is drive thru the accesses occasionally in their pretty new 3/4 ton truck to verify that the grass got cut.  Can't remember ever even seeing one stop and get out of the truck. I'm pretty old school and I kinda expect to see muddy tires and muddy shoes.  I've seen their awesome equipment....sitting on trailers....do they ever USE IT ?

Give me an example of something that they actually physically DO, besides move our money around, and maybe I could jump trains.   I haven't seen a MDC uniform with dirt or cuckleburrs on it in many MANY years.

You should smell my grandson when he gets home from work.  But since he's a summer intern he probably doesn't count.  And you should have seen the excitement in his face when he was telling me about searching for endangered species of milkweed - and finding four of them! - when he got to spend the day in the field with one of the do nothing biologists.  And came home muddy, chigger bit, tick ridden and poison ivied - just like most days for him.

Your rants suck.  Because they are wrong.

[top_dollar]

33 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

Can we wait until the threatened and scared one replies to my inquiry?

Your preconceived notions of the MDC doing nothing.

 

 

[Chief Grey Bear]

13 hours ago, Al Agnew said:

Britt, I care about Neoshos, think that having a truly native subspecies is really cool and they are very deserving of protection...in fact, if studies show that given streams have pure or nearly pure Neoshos they should be managed to optimize those populations.  Not enough anglers know enough about them, and it would be nice to get a good education program going.

But you can't really expect the Smallmouth Alliance, with the vast majority of its members on the eastern side of the state, to get as gung ho about Neoshos in the other side of the state; they are always going to concentrate on their own smallmouth issues.  You know there was an abortive attempt to get a chapter going in the southwest, and it didn't get off the ground.  It's going to take people in the area to get things started over there, either by starting their own chapter or getting enough of them into the SMA to make it a more statewide organization.  Most of the conservation organizations in the Ozarks, whether it be Ozark Society, Sierra Club, Audubon Society, etc., have both St. Louis chapters and Springfield chapters.

Now we are having a conversation!

Personaly I don't think they need any extra protection and I'm not a proponent of any. Never have been. The population is very healthy. 

I guess what I find odd is that a few select members of the Alliance like to strut around saying my daddy's better than your daddy. Well ok I guess. I thought it was an education and conservation type organization. They weren't speaking on behalf of MSA but, are very vocal members. 

Quote

I acknowledge that since MDC's surveys show that most anglers release their fish, that's a pretty good argument for there not being a need for more restrictive regs.  We can suspect that either the catch and keep people are being under-represented in the surveys, or that a relatively small number of good catch and keep anglers is having an inordinate effect on the populations, but we don't have the data to back it up.  But we do have questions, or at least I do...

What effect on populations? Population densities appear to have reamained unchanged. There of course will be up and down years depending on different factors but, as a whole over time remain steady. And I'd argue have increased slightly over the last couple of decades. 

 

 

Quote

1.  What exactly was different about that stretch of Current River that made it look like the special regs would have such a larger effect there than the rest of the places studied?  Was it an aberration, or were the studies of the other areas different somehow, and perhaps not as accurate?

I can't answer that one. Won't even hazard a guess at this point. I'm just not familiar enough with that system.

Quote

2.  Back in the days before the present limits, MDC did an experiment, making Courtois Creek catch and release only for a period of time (don't remember offhand how long), to see what kind of effect it would have.  They didn't have the data to justify it, they used that experiment to GET data.  Now, they have data on the 1 fish, fifteen inch limit management areas.  They have data on catch and release areas.  They have a small sample of data on one fish 18 inch limits.  But...they don't have data on what closing a stretch of stream to gigging would do as far as protected big smallmouth.  They don't have data on what slot limits would do.  They don't have data on what closing the catch and keep season in the winter would do. They are making some big assumptions in asserting that those three things, and perhaps other regulation ideas, would have little effect.  Why not experiment?  Take one stretch of stream and put on one of those regulatory regimes for three years.  See what happens.

Uhh ya know, I cant really argue against any of this. Other than to say that they may not see a need to. Populations are good. Populations of >15 inch are satisfactory. The majority of the angling population seems to be satisfied with the current fishing catch rates. 

Again let me state that I'm not opposed to more restrictive regs. Something along the lines of what I sent you about a year ago. And I have always been for closing the season in Nov. But I would want it across the board for all Black Bass. 

[fishinwrench]

Ok, fair enough.  I'm sure that endangered milkweed is important to someone.

  I'm glad that somewhere they are doing things to earn their keep.   Maybe they'll get around to my area eventually and get some scratches on their gear.  

[Ham]

48 minutes ago, Phil Lilley said:

This thread made my head spin...  

Is it done?  Should I kill it and put it out of its misery?  

I don't know, but IF an OA member is being threatened by another OA member via your forum, I'd look into that.

[fishinwrench]

Has there ever been actual violence spawned from here ?

If there has I've never heard about it.   When did the old saying, "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me" become irrelevant?

[ozark trout fisher]

2 minutes ago, Ham said:

I don't know, but IF an OA member is being threatened by another OA member via your forum, I'd look into that.

Oh, I don't know if I'd say I have been threatened by our friend but he is forever subtly and less than subtly trying to intimidate members into not saying things he doesn't like. It apparently doesn't tend to work, so I'm not sure how much of an issue it is.

[Mitch f]

36 minutes ago, Chief Grey Bear said:

I guess what I find odd is that a few select members of the Alliance like to strut around saying my daddy's better than your daddy. Well ok I guess. I thought it was an education and conservation type organization. They weren't speaking on behalf of MSA but, are very vocal members. 

Who are the members who strut around acting like their daddy is better than your daddy? Be specific with the person and the incident. I'm thinking it's all in your head.

[snagged in outlet 3]

If Phil shuts this down what am I going to do while I'm eating triscuits and not working at work?  Have some sympathy on me please.