Al Gore

[fishinwrench]

Battery's will need to be kept 3/4+ charged or else the life of copper windings and voltage controllers will be shortened.   So when considering battery charge frequency you had better shorten it x3 or else you are upside down in any "green" agenda.  

You operate that electric car under a load with a battery that is 1/2 discharged and there is no way to keep heat down in the circuits.   If our roads were all nice and level, and we all weighed 60-70 pounds then they might have a chance.   And if you think you can build all new roads, that are level, with electric machinery...... you're just crazy.  

I don't see any way at all that electric cars and trucks will ever happen.   The whole idea just needs to be scrapped IMO.

[tjm]

So, by the laws of physics, every change in form of energy is a net loss of energy, fuel to turn generator, loss; generator motion to electric, loss; electric transmission, loss to friction and heat; every transformer en route is again a loss; the charger itself is a loss; unless your electricity is hydro generated and the charger is on site there is no way that any battery device can be "green".  The very infrastructure to transport the electricity to your home has untold environmental cost that no one will even talk about.

Anybody know how many gallons of fossil fuel are consumed in the growing, harvesting, transport, storage, and distillation of corn to get one gallon of ethanol  and the how many more gallons of fossil fuel to distribute and mix that ethanol into my pump gas so that I can get 2-3 mpg less on the roads?

[fishinwrench]

34 minutes ago, tjm said:

So, by the laws of physics, every change in form of energy is a net loss of energy, fuel to turn generator, loss; generator motion to electric, loss; electric transmission, loss to friction and heat; every transformer en route is again a loss; the charger itself is a loss; unless your electricity is hydro generated and the charger is on site there is no way that any battery device can be "green".  The very infrastructure to transport the electricity to your home has untold environmental cost that no one will even talk about.

Anybody know how many gallons of fossil fuel are consumed in the growing, harvesting, transport, storage, and distillation of corn to get one gallon of ethanol  and the how many more gallons of fossil fuel to distribute and mix that ethanol into my pump gas so that I can get 2-3 mpg less on the roads?

Yeah, it's rediculous.  The ones with all the brilliant ideas about things never calculate where things come from and how they managed to get their hands on them.  

Just pick up something as insignificant as a rivet.....and take a moment to consider how that rivet came to be, and how it made it's way onto your workbench.

[skeeter]

9 hours ago, tjm said:

So, by the laws of physics, every change in form of energy is a net loss of energy, fuel to turn generator, loss; generator motion to electric, loss; electric transmission, loss to friction and heat; every transformer en route is again a loss; the charger itself is a loss; unless your electricity is hydro generated and the charger is on site there is no way that any battery device can be "green".  The very infrastructure to transport the electricity to your home has untold environmental cost that no one will even talk about.

Anybody know how many gallons of fossil fuel are consumed in the growing, harvesting, transport, storage, and distillation of corn to get one gallon of ethanol  and the how many more gallons of fossil fuel to distribute and mix that ethanol into my pump gas so that I can get 2-3 mpg less on the roads?

I do know the Corn-produced Ethanol farce uses 6 gallons of fresh water to produce one gallon of dratted Ethanol.  In some areas where Ethanol producing plants were established and had to rely on well-water for that fresh water supply, surrounding residents water wells went dry and they had no choice but to have them drilled deeper....until the next time.  

What I am waiting to hear is how the States plan on recouping the lost fuel tax revenue that these electric car owners avoid paying for their use of Public Roads and Bridges. We're already "giving" them about $7k in tax credits to buy their vehicles.  

[Terrierman]

Have any of you guys ever heard of wind or solar generation?

[tjm]

Well, that figures, is there any one of the green industries that is not subsidy driven?

Will the government pay to dispose of the hazardous material in a electric car at the end of it's life or is that another windmill deal? At least the cars don't kill passing birds at the same rate the windmills do. An interesting study would be to figure out the total loss of public monies lost subsidizing windmill and solar energy schemes that failed before the payout was reached. It would make expenditures on  the war against drugs or the wars against religion look small.

[Johnsfolly]

Every energy source has a cost associated with them. Wind generation is great unless you are a bird or bat. I would rather see solar or wind "farms" on city rooftops than taking over large open areas a disrupting those ecosystems. Both are also considerable eyesores (though not as much as a cooling tower or coal plant). We do need a variety of sources and should not be mandated to have one source or another.

[tjm]

6 minutes ago, Terrierman said:

Have any of you guys ever heard of wind or solar generation?

Read about them in depth, been trying to figure out a perpetual motion machine too.

The only alternative energy source that actually pays out is nuclear and if we look at waste disposal it doesn't   look real good for the earth either.

[tjm]

1 hour ago, Johnsfolly said:

Every energy source has a cost associated with them. Wind generation is great unless you are a bird or bat. I would rather see solar or wind "farms" on city rooftops than taking over large open areas a disrupting those ecosystems. Both are also considerable eyesores (though not as much as a cooling tower or coal plant). We do need a variety of sources and should not be mandated to have one source or another.

can't argue that the best place to locate these things would be in the cities, short transmission lines would save enough that the payout would happen sooner. (although most existing roof tops aren't designed to carry the additional loads) 

Can't agree more in that the energy sources should not be mandated. I also think that any energy source should not not be government dependent nor directly subsidized unless by a referendum. 

wind generation has a lot more peripheral damage than just the birds, but I don't know of any studies that show a before and after of windmill areas, one of the big things is as soon as the subsidy stops or the mills need maintenance the owner corporations abandon them and go out of business so they can't be held responsible, while the principals start new corporations bilking the public in a new location building more  government financed short term windmills. 

 

[liphunter]

Does anybody know if Al is still on the Colts roster, or did he retire???