No more hooten to mudbank

[Flysmallie]

4 hours ago, tjm said:

Not "we", most often the cars containing those types had out of state tags. That doesn't help much when the law is the ground under the water is privately owned,  and prosecutors are willing to press charges for one foot out of the water.

The one that I'm talking about was caused by the locals. There were no out of state tags, just a lot of trash and under age drinking. 

[snagged in outlet 3]

1 minute ago, Flysmallie said:

The one that I'm talking about was caused by the locals. There were no out of state tags, just a lot of trash and under age drinking. 

That's my experience almost weekly.  Gets kinda sketchy sometimes at sunrise at an out of the way public access when I'm alone. 

[tjm]

1 hour ago, vonreed said:

you have to talk to him beforehand. 

So he is controlling access just much as my neighbor who will prosecute. The law is the public has no right to access and in the past, we have just always had landowners that were easy.

1 hour ago, nhornback said:

Signs up stating no public access/no ttrsspassing and rope across all pull off spots.  I get not wanting people trashing your land but what a major bummer for us who respect it and even clean up when we see trash.

 

If we carried out the trash we made would you want ten or twenty strangers to camp out in your yard? These creeks/rivers are not public, in any manner. The case law relating to stream use in Mo requires each stream to be judged on it's own, meaning that until some one takes each steam through a trespass action all the way to the Mo Supreme Court the streams are blocked. Even if MDC or another agency provides an ramp to the water only that MDC owned area is truly public access. Up or down stream we can't technically get out of the boat. 

[tjm]

Quote

Navigability is a question of fact and it is a matter for the trial courts to determine in the event of a dispute. Because the inquiry is so fact-dependent, the same river along its course may be, variously, navigable and subject to federal regulation, navigable and subject to an easement as a public highway of the state and private as one follows the route of the river upstream to its headwaters

http://www.brydonlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Water-Law-Article.pdf

 

[MoCarp]

The majority of court cases side with the floaters at least that what that article seems to state. Being good  caretakers goes along way of. Doing good pr

[Jadesjigs]

Thanks for the report.  It saddens me to hear this because that is such a great stretch of river.  You definitely saved me a wasted trip of driving.  Unfortunately, there are too many people who ruin the opportunities of fellow fisherman that truly love and respect nature.    

[Gavin]

You can still knock on a door and ask permission. Would do in advance.

[Al Agnew]

4 hours ago, tjm said:

So he is controlling access just much as my neighbor who will prosecute. The law is the public has no right to access and in the past, we have just always had landowners that were easy.

If we carried out the trash we made would you want ten or twenty strangers to camp out in your yard? These creeks/rivers are not public, in any manner. The case law relating to stream use in Mo requires each stream to be judged on it's own, meaning that until some one takes each steam through a trespass action all the way to the Mo Supreme Court the streams are blocked. Even if MDC or another agency provides an ramp to the water only that MDC owned area is truly public access. Up or down stream we can't technically get out of the boat. 

Um, that's not quite right.  Elder v Delcour was settled on the upper Meramec River regarding a stretch that is not floatable year-round (unless you want to do a lot of scraping bottom and some canoe dragging in late summer), so it sets the precedent that any stream of that size or larger falls under the decision.  The gray area comes in streams that might not be quite as big as that stretch, or where there is some dispute.  But on several streams of that general size range, it didn't take a case going to the MO Supreme Court, it just took an opinion by a state Attorney General that it fell under the case law.  And assuming Elder v Delcour covers a given stream stretch, the public has an easement to not only float and fish it, but to also get out and wade, camp on gravel bars, stop for lunch, and portage around obstacles, as long as you don't get past the gravel bars.  Somebody mentioned above that a landowner had posted a gravel bar, threatening to call the sheriff's department.  I gotta wonder if that's not a bluff, because MOST county officials around floatable streams should know by now that you can't prosecute for trespass on gravel bars on floatable streams.  There will always be landowners who make the attempt to keep people off their gravel bar, but legally they don't have a leg to stand on.  And there will always be the few rich, influential landowners who actually are big enough donors to get the elected county officials on their side, at least until the next election.  Stream access "law" in Missouri is a mess with gray areas and lots of misconceptions, but for the most part if it's a floatable stream the public's rights should be pretty clear by now.  

As a practical matter, I stay off gravel bars that show signs of landowner use, like lanes or roads coming down to the water or lawn chairs and bbq grills or a cabin right up the bank.  But I don't HAVE to do so according to the case law.

 

[fishinwrench]

5 hours ago, snagged in outlet 3 said:

That's my experience almost weekly.  Gets kinda sketchy sometimes at sunrise at an out of the way public access when I'm alone. 

Drunk teenagers scare you?  

I was gonna raz you about that, but then I remembered that any spider bigger than a pencil eraser puts me into shock. So I'll just let it go. 😏

[snagged in outlet 3]

9 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Drunk teenagers scare you?  

I was gonna raz you about that, but then I remembered that any spider bigger than a pencil eraser puts me into shock. So I'll just let it go. 😏

Big ones in groups do.  Last year a guy was down on the ramp putting in his boat and I hear a bunch of screaming and yelling.  I asked him what’s up and he said 3 guys in tubes were floating past and just started yelling at him.  Drunk as ever at 6:30 in the morning.  I told him we could buzz their tower in our jets if he wants to😀