Don’t Use Beaver Fever Fishing Guides in Arkansas

[Ron Burgundy]

Sorry your getting roasted Jeff with post count and all that nonsense . I know the guide outfit and your story does not surprise me. 

[Cameron Gillespie]

On 7/27/2021 at 12:22 PM, Bill Babler said:

Here is the deal.  Took me 5 different trips with 3 different guides on Beaver before the boat even got a bite, going at prime time in prime season. 

Not here to criticize anyone of them except on their honesty.  When your striper fishing on beaver there is a real possibility of failure.  They kind of lead you on that success is inevitable, and nothing could be further from the truth. 

You have a shot at a big fish. Not you really, but the boat.  Pick your season and Jeffery, I'm going to put this on you. Do some research, never should have went fishing for any species at 2 in the afternoon. That's on you.  Period, no excuse. 

Arkansas needs to square themselves away, not a person anywhere should be guiding without a federal ticket, not just a slip of paper you buy at Wal-Mart, cause you decided you have a tub and want to be a guide. 

There has been several nightmare stories this year reported on the White River down there with just about the same story Jeffery just posted. Crappy guide, crude boats and broken and used fishing gear.   

There are so many trips now that every Moe and Joe can use his unlicensed brother in law to take trips. Doesn't matter to Moe or Joe cause he doesn't have a license anyways. 

Really have not seen this in Missouri as even the new guys and there are some all have Federal Licenses, insurance and seem to have excellent boats and equipment and plenty of knowledge to use it. The resorts and Marinas demand it here as does every state BUT Arkansas. 

I love our brothers to the South in Arkansas, but its time for them to become professional or someone needs to get them off the water. 

 

 

 

Bill is right about this. Everybody and their brother is a “guide” down here. It seems to have really taken off with livescope becoming prevalent on the lakes, but the White River has plenty of folks who buy a river boat and then the $25 license and start guiding. I have a pretty good idea who the real ones are and who’s just looking for a little extra cash, but it’s harder for a tourist to weed through them. I’ve only used a guide in AR once, that was to learn something about walleye fishing from a guide at Bull Shoals Boat Dock. We only caught one walleye that day (it was a big one though) but I learned a huge amount that has helped me catch a lot of walleye. 
 

I got burned once on a trip to Canada that was less than promised. That was totally my fault and I learned my lesson. I’m sure the same could be said by the OP. Honestly, a recession might weed out some of these amateur guides. The professionals won’t ever have a problem getting bookings. 

[tjm]

On 7/31/2021 at 4:17 PM, Nick Adams said:

I think it's the Coast Guard, not the Corp. Here's a thread from 2007 the @Phil Lilley started.

 

 

 

Thanks, I knew about the USCG Captain license and that really is not about being a guide  at all, if I recall it correctly, it is about operating  a  boat for hire, particularly with passengers.  Basically safe boat operation. The claim of all waters under federal jurisdiction pretty much covers all rivers and creeks that run into rivers. That takes Navigability out of the equation as well.  Neither the White nor the Osage in Mo. are Navigable, but both fall under USACE control.  I think that  if  the water runs into a USACE controlled river or lake USACE claims jurisdiction over it, thus USCG has jurisdiction over the boating on it. Nothing to do with what state either, that's all Federal stuff.

Some one could be a fine Captain and still be a lousy guide, whether for fish or elk, or to a good restaurant,  so even having that license doesn't  insure a good experience, but it does mean a better chance of the insurance being valid. It's noted in that older thread that operating a motorized  boat for hire without the Captain  license  is a Federal felony, something any guide using a boat should take seriously.

[fishinwrench]

If doing everything 100% by the book makes you feel better, fine, go right ahead. But any knowledgeable person can take people fishing, show them a great time, and get them back to their car safely.   

I recall being threatened by the water patrol about taking "guide trips" back in 1992-1994 ...... but then being encouraged/begged to participate in the kids fishing weekend at Deer Valley campground during the first week of June every year by the same people.   So let me get this straight.....you wanna see me fined/punished for taking grown people fishing for money, but yet it's perfectly ok for me to load my boat with random peoples kids and help them catch a few fish.  Huh?

Please explain that so it makes sense.  🤔

[tjm]

Wrench, I don't see that the Captains license applies to being a guide at all, a guide just shows the way, and as you say lots of folks could. That paper simply allows the captain to charge a fee for the use of his boat.  Rent the boat to the punter and the safety/insurance/liability  is on him, isn't it? isn't that how marinas operate? So, if the guide has any state guiding license, and as far as I can find out Mo. doesn't have one, that guide can charge a fee for the guide part of it. Say you have the boat and I know the lake, you can pay me to show you the way to the fish, teach you about the lake  and to give you instruction, and neither of us has crossed the law. I'm providing knowledge not hiring out my boat to carry passengers. Hiring of the boat is key, and even then I could hire out a non-motorized boat with you as passenger, such as the drift boats, or a poled skiff.

The Coast Guard has the responsibility for safe boating on Federal waters but they have no authority over the fish and game laws, that is a state thing.  USFWS does have authority over fish and game in certain Federal lands like Refuges and Parks, but the fish and wildlife are generally property of the state and the state makes the rules.  Feds can also make requirements for use of land or water owned/controlled by the Federal government, such as use fees.

Many people see guide as meaning something more than just guide, it's often confused with outfitter, and other times with instructor, or charter boat operator.

[fishinwrench]

4 hours ago, tjm said:

Wrench, I don't see that the Captains license applies to being a guide at all

Well technically you aren't supposed to "guide" without it.     

Probably 80% of guys that fish tournaments aren't covered adequately by their insurance co. either.    

[tjm]

18 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Well technically you aren't supposed to "guide" without it.

I think that's a misunderstanding, you can "guide" any where in Mo. with no license except your fishing permit. In Ar. you need the $25 permit.  The USCG  paper is just to hire out your boat to haul passengers, well any commercial use, but in relation to fishing and guiding it's the passengers for hire.  If it's your boat and you charge your passengers, you need the paper whether you guide or not, and ifs it's not your boat and/or you don't charge them for the ride you don't. But I'm not an attorney. Does the USCG mention guiding specifically? at all?

[fishinwrench]

6 hours ago, tjm said:

I think that's a misunderstanding, you can "guide" any where in Mo. with no license except your fishing permit. In Ar. you need the $25 permit.  The USCG  paper is just to hire out your boat to haul passengers, well any commercial use, but in relation to fishing and guiding it's the passengers for hire.  If it's your boat and you charge your passengers, you need the paper whether you guide or not, and ifs it's not your boat and/or you don't charge them for the ride you don't. But I'm not an attorney. Does the USCG mention guiding specifically? at all?

You'd have to ask @Bill Babler 

I didn't care at all then, and I care even less now. 😅

[Flysmallie]

1 hour ago, fishinwrench said:

I didn't care at all then, and I care even less now. 😅

Same. 

[odemizzou]

Lot of fighting about the specifics of this trip, but I can tell you all that the general advice is right... DON'T USE BEAVER FEVER!

I've used 3 diff guides over the past decade. One of them (Joe Farkas) I've used a couple times, and our boat has caught 8 and 10 stripers. Another I used because Joe was booked up the whole weekend and he recommended him, and the guy got us 6 (I just can't remember his name). The first guide I ever used was Beaver Fever, and whoo boy, they were freaking terrible.

We got Timmy. I've learned since that Timmy has spent some time in jail since our trip. We used bluegill as bait, because Timmy didn't have any shad. Timmy also took us out at 2pm (I was new to Beaver, I didn't know this was terrible, I assumed if a guide said it was a good time to go, then I should believe him). Timmy smoked pot the whole time out of a one-hitter that looked like a cigarette (I think he thought we didn't know what it was). Timmy also stopped the fishing twice so that he could jump in the water to cool off.

We caught one fish, a juvenile, about 6 pounds.

Not all guides are the same. Stay the heck away from Beaver Fever.