Al Gore

[fishinwrench]

1 hour ago, Flysmallie said:

Oh you know I’m coming to you once I get all the electronics together. How many RPMs do we need to make one go? 

If you are eliminating the powerhead then you can go as high/low as you want.  The gearcase can take whatever you throw at it.  1.5:1 or 2.2:1

[Daryk Campbell Sr]

15 hours ago, fishinwrench said:

Electric cars are pretty darn cool, but if you're in the camp that thinks that if more people had them then we'd save the world, don't forget to consider that it takes a considerable amount of fossil fuel to produce the components needed to build one.  Mining and producing copper, steel, lead, mercury, various insulators, magnets, and doing lots of case hardening.  

I haven't spent 30 seconds studying any of this, but my initial thought is that they somewhat resemble wind turbines in the sense that it takes more fossil fuel to produce one than it can possibly save in it's usable lifetime.  The end result being a push at the very best, as far as environmental benefit is concerned.

Maybe they should begin by making electric bulldozers, cranes, dump trucks, kilns, freight trains, and semi-trucks first.   Cars and other means of personal transportation is quite a ways down the line.  

On top of all of the production costs to the environment,  what is all to often overlooked, or never discussed is the correct disposal of all of the non reusable waste.  Look into that when you are bored.  

[MoCarp]

Wow never thought of how toxic many “green” tech waste can be

[tjm]

Every "green" gizmo fad out there costs the environment more than the stuff it replaces.  The saviors of the earth can't do math and depend on second hand propaganda to make emotional decisions. 

Anyone that honestly claims to want to pass on a better world to their kids or grandkids would not be on this forum using up electric power generated by fossil fuels on a machine that created as much toxic waste in manufacture as the nastiest car out there. All those bass boats and jet boats fall in the same "green" category as MoCarp's Big Block muscle car, so anyone using one is on the same side he is.

[liphunter]

10 minutes ago, tjm said:

Every "green" gizmo fad out there costs the environment more than the stuff it replaces.  The saviors of the earth can't do math and depend on second hand propaganda to make emotional decisions. 

Anyone that honestly claims to want to pass on a better world to their kids or grandkids would not be on this forum using up electric power generated by fossil fuels on a machine that created as much toxic waste in manufacture as the nastiest car out there. All those bass boats and jet boats fall in the same "green" category as MoCarp's Big Block muscle car, so anyone using one is on the same side he is.

I'm not sure, I'll need to check with MoCarp. But I believe I used more energy in my morning number  two's than this computer uses in a week. Like I said, have to check my resources...

[tjm]

Any use of electric power is anti environmental.  Everyone say's "It's not Me screwing the earth" while doing exactly that. If we use plastic or electricity or any kind of powered machinery, we are the culprits. Hypocrisy is mans greatest achievement.

[Al Agnew]

Um...don't know where you guys are getting your "facts", but a little real fact checking shows a couple things about electric cars.  Yes, the manufacturing is dirtier than conventional gas cars...anywhere from 15-65% more CO2 and other pollutants in the manufacturing of an electric vehicle, the bulk of the increase in the manufacturing of the batteries.  But...those greater emissions are made up for within 6 to 18 months of driving the car due to far less emissions in driving it.  So after a year or so of driving it, you've become greener, and will remain greener from then on, on average.

However, the one caveat here is in where your electricity comes from.  If the electricity in the grid you've plugged into is coming from coal-fired power plants, you are probably not much greener than if you were driving a gas engine, and may not make up that difference in manufacturing pollution for a long time, if ever.  But if the grid is powered by natural gas or any kind of non-fossil fuel (especially hydropower, wind, and solar), you are going to be MUCH greener.

So while electric vehicles aren't as green as they appear at first glance, they ARE, on average, significantly greener than gas engines even considering manufacturing differences.  And the hope is that battery technology will also get greener in the near future, bringing manufacturing pollution more in line with conventional vehicles.

 

[Terrierman]

2 hours ago, tjm said:

Any use of electric power is anti environmental.  Everyone say's "It's not Me screwing the earth" while doing exactly that. If we use plastic or electricity or any kind of powered machinery, we are the culprits. Hypocrisy is mans greatest achievement.

Must be nice to see things in such stark black and white.  No shades of gray, no reason to conserve resources. 

[fishinwrench]

12 minutes ago, Al Agnew said:

.those greater emissions are made up for within 6 to 18 months of driving the car

Totally unconvinced of that.  Where could that "fact" have come from ?  😊

I really don't even care.  Combustion engines aren't going anywhere, and that's a "fact" that doesn't even need a link attached to it.     Even when the time comes that humans can teleport themselves from point A to point B there will still be combustion engines doing all of the "heavy lifting" in this world.  

[tjm]

25 minutes ago, Al Agnew said:

Yes, the manufacturing is dirtier than conventional gas cars...anywhere from 15-65% more CO2 and other pollutants in the manufacturing of an electric vehicle, the bulk of the increase in the manufacturing of the batteries.  But...those greater emissions are made up for within 6 to 18 months of driving the car due to far less emissions in driving it. 

Al, does that calculation count the transport and shipping of Mo mined lead in ore form to some offshore country for unrestricted smelting and the shipping of the refined lead back to the battery manufacturing location? or just the battery  manufacturing process?

What is the useful life of these batteries?