Al Gore

[MoCarp]

Interesting

1st the US pales in pollution to Asia, the USA is less polluted today than in the 70s way less trash

CO2 isn’t pollution it’s a trace gas that is the basis of all plant growth  today it’s peak is about 400 or so parts per million so if you pile a million pennies in a pile you only have 4 bucks in pennies

is the climate getting warmer? YES! Has been on the upswing since 1850 glaciers had been advancing in many locations in Europe and early scientists documenting the advances, it’s no coincidence most charts start in the 1890s when the start of the industrial revolution began.

are people increasing co2? Yes, but here is the rub what’s the driver of climate? Ice core sample list the warmest in the last 25k Years was about 8k years ago, considerably warmer that today.

we know volcanoes can cause radical climate change, we think meteor impacts can as well

We should do the best we can with clean air and water yet the comical arguments of vegans on cow flatulents or how the world will end in 12 years if we keep burning fossil fuels is agenda driven.

On my lifetime pollution is less, because of regulations..as well as public will.

I suggest reading about the year without a summer in 1816 Tambora erupted and weather lurched to ice age like conditions, over 60k people died in England alone... this will happen again, as it’s happened over and over and over,,,I remembered in the hard winters of the late 70s that we were going to have a return to an ice age according to the media at that time 

It also seems the last two years have been cooling .53 degrees world wide...,

https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/04/24/did_you_know_the_greatest_two-year_global_cooling_event_just_took_place_103243.html

[Smalliebigs]

On 3/4/2019 at 9:32 PM, Mark said:

By all means, let's keep polluting !!! Ain't hurtin nuttin!!

If you had any idea of the amount of trash I have removed from the Meramec and Big Rivers thru stream teams and on my own... my wife and I have been minimizing our consumption and recycling since 1991 on a epic level.

when you bark at people who are doing what you are yapping about your message comes off as lame yelling 

[top_dollar]

11 hours ago, MoCarp said:

Interesting

1st the US pales in pollution to Asia, the USA is less polluted today than in the 70s way less trash......Sort of, China = #1 and USA = # 2,  it is also poor logic to say "others are worse so who cares?".  The second part of your statement is too vague, there are arguments to be made for either side.

CO2 isn’t pollution it’s a trace gas that is the basis of all plant growth  today it’s peak is about 400 or so parts per million so if you pile a million pennies in a pile you only have 4 bucks in pennies....This is wrong. Excess CO2 is pollution. Yes plants use CO2, and yes were at about 400ppm, that however, means absolutely nothing.  Water is also wet, and birds also fly, neither of which have anything to do with the argument at hand.  Any scientist would be happy to tell you that CO2 absorbs IR light very well.  If you have ever run an FTIR you would know this.  Most of the sun's energy is in the form of IR radiation.  Water is also a strong absorber of IR light, however, because the atmosphere cannot hold very much, the concentration stays about the same (rain).  CO2 on the other hand, just keeps accumulating.  Perhaps its new to you, but this concept has been known since the 1890's as the greenhouse effect.  Oddly enough the guy who described this phenomenon also correctly predicted it happening on earth 100 years later.  If the CO2 concentration of an enclosed system increases, physics tells us that so will the temperature of the system irradiated by infrared wavelengths. It is simply irrefutable.

is the climate getting warmer? YES! Has been on the upswing since 1850 glaciers had been advancing in many locations in Europe and early scientists documenting the advances, it’s no coincidence most charts start in the 1890s when the start of the industrial revolution began...Strike 3, you should be sent back to little league.  The temperature curve takes a major upswing around 1970-1980, as predicted by climate scientists 40 years prior.  That one is pretty easily googled.

are people increasing co2? Yes, but here is the rub what’s the driver of climate? Ice core sample list the warmest in the last 25k Years was about 8k years ago, considerably warmer that today.....See my argument about the greenhouse effect.  That is what drives the climate.  Without an atmosphere to trap in the sun's energy this planet would look alot more like mars.

we know volcanoes can cause radical climate change, we think meteor impacts can as well...Correct, however these events have been famously documented to result in major extinction events.  I am not sure how this helps your argument any.

We should do the best we can with clean air and water yet the comical arguments of vegans on cow flatulents or how the world will end in 12 years if we keep burning fossil fuels is agenda driven...."We should do the best we can with clean air and water" should have just left it at that.  These arguments are taken out of context via the fox news crew who have some weird obsession with certain legislators.  Even in the event that they arent, it is certainly no reason make all of the absurd arguments you have been trying to make.

On my lifetime pollution is less, because of regulations..as well as public will.....This is a head scratcher.

I suggest reading about the year without a summer in 1816 Tambora erupted and weather lurched to ice age like conditions, over 60k people died in England alone... this will happen again, as it’s happened over and over and over,,,I remembered in the hard winters of the late 70s that we were going to have a return to an ice age according to the media at that time...Media about science does not equal science.  The media sensationalizes everything.  If you can find me some primary peer reviewed literature that said an ice age was coming I would appreciate it.  Back on earth, the vast majority of peer reviewed climate papers of the 60s and 70s said that the global temperature would likely increase as a result of more CO2 being dumped in the atmosphere.  Low and behold...they were right. 

It also seems the last two years have been cooling .53 degrees world wide...,2016 was the hottest year on record, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 are the 4 hottest years on record. Of course any year not hotter than the last would make a 2 year cooling pattern.  When you catch 2 fish do you think you've located the pattern?  Seems like you have saved your worst argument for last.

https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/04/24/did_you_know_the_greatest_two-year_global_cooling_event_just_took_place_103243.html

In the words of the late Christopher Hitchens, "You seem like the type of person who has never read any of the rebuttals to your arguments."  I think you have hit just about everyone of the right wing talking points.  Every one of these arguments was identified and refuted 50 years ago in the scientific community, as per usual the rest of the world is woefully behind.  Although your pretend knowledge of scientific principles is nauseating, and may even be worse than fishinwrench, I do find it entertaining to say the least  

[MoCarp]

12 minutes ago, top_dollar said:

In the words of the late Christopher Hitchens, "You seem like the type of person who has never read any of the rebuttals to your arguments."  I think you have hit just about everyone of the right wing talking points.  Every one of these arguments was identified and refuted 50 years ago in the scientific community, as per usual the rest of the world is woefully behind.  Although your pretend knowledge of scientific principles is nauseating, and may even be worse than fishinwrench, I do find it entertaining to say the least. 

Perhaps you should read the raw data, the evidences man is the cause of warming has not been established, interesting that solar system wide is warming, we have great data from mars on this subject, we do not know what caused the warmest period 8k years ago, no Coal fired plants then so why so much warmer then? Holocene temps have been Falling but climate warming researchers have a vested interest in cherry picking data, change my mind that we were warmer 8 k years ago than today

I still think we should pound true polluters out of business and start on the worse ones in China and India, 

https://www.iceagenow.info/temperatures-have-been-falling-for-8000-years/

[top_dollar]

15 minutes ago, MoCarp said:

Perhaps you should read the raw data, the evidences man is the cause of warming has not been established, interesting that solar system wide is warming, we have great data from mars on this subject, we do not know what caused the warmest period 8k years ago, no Coal fired plants then so why so much warmer then? Holocene temps have been Falling but climate warming researchers have a vested interest in cherry picking data, change my mind that we were warmer 8 k years ago than today

I still think we should pound true polluters out of business and start on the worse ones in China and India, 

https://www.iceagenow.info/temperatures-have-been-falling-for-8000-years/

The raw data from the world famous reputable scientific journal iceagenow.info?   Do you know what primary peer reviewed literature is? and how it differs from what some guy said on the internet?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, top_dollar said:

The raw data from the world famous reputable scientific journal iceagenow.info?   Do you know what primary peer reviewed literature is? and how it differs from what some guy said on the internet?

🤣

[MoCarp]

the same data from here

https://www.omicsonline.org/scientific-journals.php

[fishinwrench]

2 hours ago, top_dollar said:

Although your pretend knowledge of scientific principles is nauseating, and may even be worse than fishinwrench,

I beg your pardon?   When have I ever pretended to know anything about scientific principals ?

Let's all keep our flawed comprehension skills pointed at the correct target, shall we?

[top_dollar]

24 minutes ago, fishinwrench said:

I beg your pardon?   When have I ever pretended to know anything about scientific principals ?

Let's all keep our flawed comprehension skills pointed at the correct target, shall we?

You clearly seem to know more than any of the fat cat, fancy truck driving, highly paid conservation biologists.   

 

Ok, I will.

[timinmo]

So I have not nor do I plan to read this whole thing so if I have missed some meaningful stuff I am sure someone will let me know.

I will be 66 this year and yes it is much better than it was when I was a kid.  Is it as good as it could be?  Most definitely not.  Could we do more?  We could all do more.  Criticize me if you wish but we as a nation can not base our activities on what China and India do.  That is like throwing trash out the car window because everyone else does it.  Should we encourage other countries to do more, certainly.  I will not get into the "Global Warming" debate but we as a country and we as individuals could all do more than we are doing to improve the world  we live in.